Father and son ran cannabis farm in Dallam

Warrington Guardian: Father and son ran cannabis farm in Dallam sentenced at Warrington Crown Court Father and son ran cannabis farm in Dallam sentenced at Warrington Crown Court

A FATHER and son have admitted to running a cannabis farm capable of producing up to £112,000 worth of weed a year.

David Williams, aged 50, and Edward David Williams, aged 20, pleaded guilty to producing cannabis at the address at 4 Lewis Avenue in Dallam.

Warrington Crown Court heard on Monday how Williams Jr lived at the property which housed a ‘sophisticated’ set up with cannabis grown in three rooms.

Jo Maxwell, prosecuting, said police executed a warrant on March 13 to find a stoned Williams Jr alone in the house, where there was a strong smell of weed.

They found 39 plants, around 40 inches in height, along with numerous high wattage lights, bottles of plant food and fans.

In the kitchen were chocolate cakes with cannabis sprinkled on top.

More than 3kg of cannabis was recovered, including 1.9kg of flowering heads, with a potential value of £22,000, the court heard.

On arrest William Jr admitted to owning two bags of cannabis found in the living room, but denied any knowledge of the plants.

Ms Maxwell said: “He said he never went into the bedrooms because he had no need to do so and that it was his job to keep the property clean.”

Recorder of Chester Elgan Edwards said: “When you consider he has a previous conviction for cultivating cannabis it makes the whole thing even more absurd.”

Williams Jr later said they were his dad’s who was growing it ‘for his own smoke’.

However, his fingerprints were then found on one of the lamps used to grow the Class B drug.

He then admitted to overseeing the farm as a ‘gardener’.

Williams Sr was arrested on March 15 and admitted ownership of the operation.

He said he had purchased the equipment for £600 from Ebay.

The court heard it was capable of producing up to five crops a year with a value of between £67,000 and £112,000.

Mr Edwards jailed Williams Sr for 15 months as he went into the operation ‘with eyes open to make money’.

Williams Jr was sentenced to six months in prison, suspended for two years, and a supervision order for two years.

Comments (49)

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9:45am Sun 18 Nov 12

the dr who says...

on the drug front thats a piddling amount !! i dont drink smoke or do any drugs but i think cannabis may just as well be legal.

you cant overdose on it,
on the drug front thats a piddling amount !! i dont drink smoke or do any drugs but i think cannabis may just as well be legal. you cant overdose on it, the dr who

10:40am Sun 18 Nov 12

direwire says...

A farm!? Did they have tractors and everything!
A farm!? Did they have tractors and everything! direwire

11:53am Sun 18 Nov 12

Babs Stanley says...

Last week Colorado and Washington state legalised cannabis for adults!

Are we so stupid in Britain that we cannot learn the lessons of history? If we prohibit something for which there is huge demand then the price rises and violent criminals become involved.

If we introduced a legally regulated system we would solve nearly all the problems around cannabis. Science proves how much safer it is than tobacco, alcohol, prescription medicines and all other recreational drugs. The evidence is that where legal regulation is introduced, consumption by children and health harms are reduced.

Doctors would be able to prescribe one of the most effective medicines that has no serious side effects at all. At the moment the government has given GW Pharmaceuticals an illegal monopoly on cannabis so they make millions out of a medicine that you can grow in your greenhouse for virtually nothing

Our present policy on cannabis is irrational, irresponsible and dangerous. Now, the inevitable change will begin to roll out across the world.
Last week Colorado and Washington state legalised cannabis for adults! Are we so stupid in Britain that we cannot learn the lessons of history? If we prohibit something for which there is huge demand then the price rises and violent criminals become involved. If we introduced a legally regulated system we would solve nearly all the problems around cannabis. Science proves how much safer it is than tobacco, alcohol, prescription medicines and all other recreational drugs. The evidence is that where legal regulation is introduced, consumption by children and health harms are reduced. Doctors would be able to prescribe one of the most effective medicines that has no serious side effects at all. At the moment the government has given GW Pharmaceuticals an illegal monopoly on cannabis so they make millions out of a medicine that you can grow in your greenhouse for virtually nothing Our present policy on cannabis is irrational, irresponsible and dangerous. Now, the inevitable change will begin to roll out across the world. Babs Stanley

2:30pm Sun 18 Nov 12

gazhopley says...

This country has evolved more in the last 30yrs than in all its previous history... unfortunately the way the country is run erm..... hasn't
This country has evolved more in the last 30yrs than in all its previous history... unfortunately the way the country is run erm..... hasn't gazhopley

3:57pm Sun 18 Nov 12

SuperSilverSourDiesel says...

direwire wrote:
A farm!? Did they have tractors and everything!
LOL made me laugh, at least there not calling it a factory this time.
[quote][p][bold]direwire[/bold] wrote: A farm!? Did they have tractors and everything![/p][/quote]LOL made me laugh, at least there not calling it a factory this time. SuperSilverSourDiesel

3:58pm Sun 18 Nov 12

SuperSilverSourDiesel says...

2,737 BCE First recorded use of cannabis as medicine by Emperor Shen Neng of China.

2,000-800 BCE Bhang (dried cannabis leaves, seeds and stems) is mentioned in the Hindu sacred text Atharvaveda (Science of Charms) as "Sacred Grass", one of the five sacred plants of India. It is used by medicinally and ritually as an offering to Shiva.

1,500 BCE Cannabis cultivated in China for food and fiber. Scythians cultivate cannabis and use it to weave fine hemp cloth.

430 BCE Herodotus reports on both ritual and recreation use of Cannabis by the Scythians (Herodotus The Histories 430 B.C. trans. G. Rawlinson).

100-0 BCE The psychotropic properties of Cannabis are mentioned in the newly compiled herbal Pen Ts'ao Ching.

Fast Forward

1840 In America, medicinal preparations with a Cannabis base are available. Hashish is available in Persian pharmacies.

1850 Cannabis is added to The U.S. Pharmacopoeia.

1856 British tax "ganja" and "charas" trade in India.

1890 Sir J.R. Reynolds, chief physician to Queen Victoria, prescribes her cannabis.

1906 In the U.S. the 'Pure Food and Drug Act' is passed, regulating the labeling of products containing Alcohol, Opiates, Cocaine, and Cannabis, among others.

1915-1927 In the U.S. cannabis begins to be prohibited for nonmedical use.

1928 Recreational use of Cannabis is banned in Britain. Class B until 2004

1933 The U.S. congress repealed the 21st Amendment, ending alcohol prohibition. Prohibition had built an infrastructre, many faced redundancy. 4 years later the prohibition of marijuana will be in full effect.

1936 The American propaganda film Reefer Madness was made to scare American youth away from using Cannabis.

1941 Cannabis is removed from the U.S. Pharmacopoeia and it's medicinal use is no longer recognized in America.

2001 Under President G.W. Bush the U.S. federal government intensified its "war on drugs" targeting both patients and doctors across the state of California.

2004 Now Class C in Britain, (Reclassification had the support of the majority of the public) The change was designed to enable police forces to concentrate resources on other (more serious) offences, including those involving "harder drugs". The government stated that the reclassification of cannabis to class C had the desired effect, with arrests for cannabis possession falling by one third in the first year following, saving an estimated 199,000 police hours

2007 Britain's Home Secretary, David Blunkett, proposes relaxing the classification of cannabis from a class B to class C

2008 Cannabis in the UK would again be classified as a class B drug, despite the Advisory Council's recommendation.

2012 Washington and Colorado legalize and regulate cannabis for recreation use, as well as medicinal. As the dangers of prohibition are realised, three other states push for marijuana legalization as cannabis reform gains momentum (Maine, Massachusetts, Rhode island and Vermont)

Currently the British goverment and home office said ''No medicinal Value in Cannabis'' as they lisence a company called GwPharma to grow thousands of cannabis plants, as medicine. Selling it at 10 times the price of prohibited herbal cannabis. Gwpharma's ''Sativex'' is liquid cannabis extracted from the flower buds into tinctures. Its a concentraite and at 50% THC stronger than illegal herbal cannabis varying between 12%-18% THC.

Now, the British goverment and home office say ''No medicinal Value in HERBAL Cannabis'' Which makes no sense and is not true
2,737 BCE First recorded use of cannabis as medicine by Emperor Shen Neng of China. 2,000-800 BCE Bhang (dried cannabis leaves, seeds and stems) is mentioned in the Hindu sacred text Atharvaveda (Science of Charms) as "Sacred Grass", one of the five sacred plants of India. It is used by medicinally and ritually as an offering to Shiva. 1,500 BCE Cannabis cultivated in China for food and fiber. Scythians cultivate cannabis and use it to weave fine hemp cloth. 430 BCE Herodotus reports on both ritual and recreation use of Cannabis by the Scythians (Herodotus The Histories 430 B.C. trans. G. Rawlinson). 100-0 BCE The psychotropic properties of Cannabis are mentioned in the newly compiled herbal Pen Ts'ao Ching. Fast Forward 1840 In America, medicinal preparations with a Cannabis base are available. Hashish is available in Persian pharmacies. 1850 Cannabis is added to The U.S. Pharmacopoeia. 1856 British tax "ganja" and "charas" trade in India. 1890 Sir J.R. Reynolds, chief physician to Queen Victoria, prescribes her cannabis. 1906 In the U.S. the 'Pure Food and Drug Act' is passed, regulating the labeling of products containing Alcohol, Opiates, Cocaine, and Cannabis, among others. 1915-1927 In the U.S. cannabis begins to be prohibited for nonmedical use. 1928 Recreational use of Cannabis is banned in Britain. Class B until 2004 1933 The U.S. congress repealed the 21st Amendment, ending alcohol prohibition. Prohibition had built an infrastructre, many faced redundancy. 4 years later the prohibition of marijuana will be in full effect. 1936 The American propaganda film Reefer Madness was made to scare American youth away from using Cannabis. 1941 Cannabis is removed from the U.S. Pharmacopoeia and it's medicinal use is no longer recognized in America. 2001 Under President G.W. Bush the U.S. federal government intensified its "war on drugs" targeting both patients and doctors across the state of California. 2004 Now Class C in Britain, (Reclassification had the support of the majority of the public) The change was designed to enable police forces to concentrate resources on other (more serious) offences, including those involving "harder drugs". The government stated that the reclassification of cannabis to class C had the desired effect, with arrests for cannabis possession falling by one third in the first year following, saving an estimated 199,000 police hours 2007 Britain's Home Secretary, David Blunkett, proposes relaxing the classification of cannabis from a class B to class C 2008 Cannabis in the UK would again be classified as a class B drug, despite the Advisory Council's recommendation. 2012 Washington and Colorado legalize and regulate cannabis for recreation use, as well as medicinal. As the dangers of prohibition are realised, three other states push for marijuana legalization as cannabis reform gains momentum (Maine, Massachusetts, Rhode island and Vermont) Currently the British goverment and home office said ''No medicinal Value in Cannabis'' as they lisence a company called GwPharma to grow thousands of cannabis plants, as medicine. Selling it at 10 times the price of prohibited herbal cannabis. Gwpharma's ''Sativex'' is liquid cannabis extracted from the flower buds into tinctures. Its a concentraite and at 50% THC stronger than illegal herbal cannabis varying between 12%-18% THC. Now, the British goverment and home office say ''No medicinal Value in HERBAL Cannabis'' Which makes no sense and is not true SuperSilverSourDiesel

5:18pm Sun 18 Nov 12

chunkymunky says...

Ohhhhh bloody hell it's the copy and paste brigade!!!
Ohhhhh bloody hell it's the copy and paste brigade!!! chunkymunky

5:36pm Sun 18 Nov 12

Rawrface says...

I'm not even worried, guys. Weed will be legalized very soon! Just gotta make all the haters and people 'afraid' of the lies... we have to make them believe the TRUTH! LEGALIZE IT! Stop living in fear!
I'm not even worried, guys. Weed will be legalized very soon! Just gotta make all the haters and people 'afraid' of the lies... we have to make them believe the TRUTH! LEGALIZE IT! Stop living in fear! Rawrface

8:41pm Sun 18 Nov 12

SuperSilverSourDiesel says...

chunkymunky wrote:
Ohhhhh bloody hell it's the copy and paste brigade!!!
..Ohhh its the lets keep cannabis in the hands of criminals brigade again.

If you dont like what we have to say then why are you reading our comments? keep supporting a policy that keeps criminals rich if you like, just know the amount people who are of that position is declining and fast, the more they understand the dangerous economic drain that is prohibition.
[quote][p][bold]chunkymunky[/bold] wrote: Ohhhhh bloody hell it's the copy and paste brigade!!![/p][/quote]..Ohhh its the lets keep cannabis in the hands of criminals brigade again. If you dont like what we have to say then why are you reading our comments? keep supporting a policy that keeps criminals rich if you like, just know the amount people who are of that position is declining and fast, the more they understand the dangerous economic drain that is prohibition. SuperSilverSourDiesel

8:36am Mon 19 Nov 12

Saysitasitis says...

Are your lives so dull, boring, non eventful, stressfull, energetic etc etc that you need cannabis to make it all better....or any drug (not related to an illness obviously)
Get out, get a hobby, get some exercise....GET A LIFE!!!
Are your lives so dull, boring, non eventful, stressfull, energetic etc etc that you need cannabis to make it all better....or any drug (not related to an illness obviously) Get out, get a hobby, get some exercise....GET A LIFE!!! Saysitasitis

9:36am Mon 19 Nov 12

chunkymunky says...

SuperSilverSourDiese
l
wrote:
chunkymunky wrote: Ohhhhh bloody hell it's the copy and paste brigade!!!
..Ohhh its the lets keep cannabis in the hands of criminals brigade again. If you dont like what we have to say then why are you reading our comments? keep supporting a policy that keeps criminals rich if you like, just know the amount people who are of that position is declining and fast, the more they understand the dangerous economic drain that is prohibition.
urrrr...your presuming my opinion there and then answering it without actually asking it!!

My comment was merely to point out that every time we have a cannabis raid story we have the same 3 pages of copied and pasted text from the 'comment warrior' time and time again!

The reason i make this comment is the majority them don’t want an open debate or discussion on forums and news site about the uses of cannabis you want a militant campaign and anyone who doesn’t agree you all gang up, call you mates and post pages of abuse at them that’s why i made the original comment! Its always ‘im right your wrong’ (plus there’s the bit where the ‘leader’ of CLEAR personally hasn’t done himself any favours with silly remarks etc!!!)

I thought most of the comment warriors would have realised by now that change will only ever come from discussion and compromise from both sides....otherwise its just an argument that never gets settled!
[quote][p][bold]SuperSilverSourDiese l[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]chunkymunky[/bold] wrote: Ohhhhh bloody hell it's the copy and paste brigade!!![/p][/quote]..Ohhh its the lets keep cannabis in the hands of criminals brigade again. If you dont like what we have to say then why are you reading our comments? keep supporting a policy that keeps criminals rich if you like, just know the amount people who are of that position is declining and fast, the more they understand the dangerous economic drain that is prohibition.[/p][/quote]urrrr...your presuming my opinion there and then answering it without actually asking it!! My comment was merely to point out that every time we have a cannabis raid story we have the same 3 pages of copied and pasted text from the 'comment warrior' time and time again! The reason i make this comment is the majority them don’t want an open debate or discussion on forums and news site about the uses of cannabis you want a militant campaign and anyone who doesn’t agree you all gang up, call you mates and post pages of abuse at them that’s why i made the original comment! Its always ‘im right your wrong’ (plus there’s the bit where the ‘leader’ of CLEAR personally hasn’t done himself any favours with silly remarks etc!!!) I thought most of the comment warriors would have realised by now that change will only ever come from discussion and compromise from both sides....otherwise its just an argument that never gets settled! chunkymunky

2:33pm Mon 19 Nov 12

notatcreamfields says...

I agree the amount was small but people "claiming" that it's harmless because of all the tests what have been done on it are full of manure. There's not been much scientific testing done on it but the ones that have been done suggest it cause's mental illness after long term use and massively increases symtoms of people with mental illness. Giving that one in five people will suffer from dandruff in their lives yet one in four will suffer from mental illness is very concerning and proves the case it does damage the population. All it takes is walking past the job center of an afternoon and seeing the amount of people smoking spliffs and the state of them doesn't really do the legalisation case any good. The test's most cannabis users talk about is non scientific tests done by users with the large number of people suffering because of it scrubbed from the record.
I agree the amount was small but people "claiming" that it's harmless because of all the tests what have been done on it are full of manure. There's not been much scientific testing done on it but the ones that have been done suggest it cause's mental illness after long term use and massively increases symtoms of people with mental illness. Giving that one in five people will suffer from dandruff in their lives yet one in four will suffer from mental illness is very concerning and proves the case it does damage the population. All it takes is walking past the job center of an afternoon and seeing the amount of people smoking spliffs and the state of them doesn't really do the legalisation case any good. The test's most cannabis users talk about is non scientific tests done by users with the large number of people suffering because of it scrubbed from the record. notatcreamfields

3:20pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Babs Stanley says...

notatcreamfields wrote:
I agree the amount was small but people "claiming" that it's harmless because of all the tests what have been done on it are full of manure. There's not been much scientific testing done on it but the ones that have been done suggest it cause's mental illness after long term use and massively increases symtoms of people with mental illness. Giving that one in five people will suffer from dandruff in their lives yet one in four will suffer from mental illness is very concerning and proves the case it does damage the population. All it takes is walking past the job center of an afternoon and seeing the amount of people smoking spliffs and the state of them doesn't really do the legalisation case any good. The test's most cannabis users talk about is non scientific tests done by users with the large number of people suffering because of it scrubbed from the record.
Rubbish I'm afraid notatcreamfields. Cannabis is probably the most researched natural compound ever. Try searching the PubMed peer reviewed research archive instead of relying on the Daily Mail.

The facts are that the risk of a lifetime's cannabis use correlating (causation is not proven) with a single diagnosis of psychosis is less than 0.003% (Hickman et al 2009)
[quote][p][bold]notatcreamfields[/bold] wrote: I agree the amount was small but people "claiming" that it's harmless because of all the tests what have been done on it are full of manure. There's not been much scientific testing done on it but the ones that have been done suggest it cause's mental illness after long term use and massively increases symtoms of people with mental illness. Giving that one in five people will suffer from dandruff in their lives yet one in four will suffer from mental illness is very concerning and proves the case it does damage the population. All it takes is walking past the job center of an afternoon and seeing the amount of people smoking spliffs and the state of them doesn't really do the legalisation case any good. The test's most cannabis users talk about is non scientific tests done by users with the large number of people suffering because of it scrubbed from the record.[/p][/quote]Rubbish I'm afraid notatcreamfields. Cannabis is probably the most researched natural compound ever. Try searching the PubMed peer reviewed research archive instead of relying on the Daily Mail. The facts are that the risk of a lifetime's cannabis use correlating (causation is not proven) with a single diagnosis of psychosis is less than 0.003% (Hickman et al 2009) Babs Stanley

3:27pm Mon 19 Nov 12

notatcreamfields says...

Daily Mail? What's cannabis advocates obsession with this paper? Here's a REAL scientific study that's been done on it anyway http://www.rcpsych.a
c.uk/expertadvice/pr
oblems/alcoholanddru
gs/cannabis.aspx to be honest i never really thought of the link between the number of cannabis users smoking outside to job centre obviously through being unemployed and the fact that cannabis demotivates people. Don't know where you think these large number of tests have been done and it being one of the most researched drugs. Please provide proof from independent sources and not "the high times". Plus i refer to personal experience cause unlike the majority of people i deal with cannabis use's social and medical effects nearly every day
Daily Mail? What's cannabis advocates obsession with this paper? Here's a REAL scientific study that's been done on it anyway http://www.rcpsych.a c.uk/expertadvice/pr oblems/alcoholanddru gs/cannabis.aspx to be honest i never really thought of the link between the number of cannabis users smoking outside to job centre obviously through being unemployed and the fact that cannabis demotivates people. Don't know where you think these large number of tests have been done and it being one of the most researched drugs. Please provide proof from independent sources and not "the high times". Plus i refer to personal experience cause unlike the majority of people i deal with cannabis use's social and medical effects nearly every day notatcreamfields

3:34pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Babs Stanley says...

notatcreamfields wrote:
Daily Mail? What's cannabis advocates obsession with this paper? Here's a REAL scientific study that's been done on it anyway http://www.rcpsych.a

c.uk/expertadvice/pr

oblems/alcoholanddru

gs/cannabis.aspx to be honest i never really thought of the link between the number of cannabis users smoking outside to job centre obviously through being unemployed and the fact that cannabis demotivates people. Don't know where you think these large number of tests have been done and it being one of the most researched drugs. Please provide proof from independent sources and not "the high times". Plus i refer to personal experience cause unlike the majority of people i deal with cannabis use's social and medical effects nearly every day
http://www.ncbi.nlm.
nih.gov/pubmed?term=
cannabis

11,602 peer reviewed studies
[quote][p][bold]notatcreamfields[/bold] wrote: Daily Mail? What's cannabis advocates obsession with this paper? Here's a REAL scientific study that's been done on it anyway http://www.rcpsych.a c.uk/expertadvice/pr oblems/alcoholanddru gs/cannabis.aspx to be honest i never really thought of the link between the number of cannabis users smoking outside to job centre obviously through being unemployed and the fact that cannabis demotivates people. Don't know where you think these large number of tests have been done and it being one of the most researched drugs. Please provide proof from independent sources and not "the high times". Plus i refer to personal experience cause unlike the majority of people i deal with cannabis use's social and medical effects nearly every day[/p][/quote]http://www.ncbi.nlm. nih.gov/pubmed?term= cannabis 11,602 peer reviewed studies Babs Stanley

3:41pm Mon 19 Nov 12

notatcreamfields says...

268 users in Australia is hardly a large study is it?
268 users in Australia is hardly a large study is it? notatcreamfields

3:45pm Mon 19 Nov 12

notatcreamfields says...

Research clearly demonstrates
that marijuana has the potential
to cause problems in daily life or
make a person's existing
problems worse. Probably wasn't the best link to prove your case was it sunshine? At various places it's indicates how little research has been done on it with several areas not being clear
Research clearly demonstrates that marijuana has the potential to cause problems in daily life or make a person's existing problems worse. Probably wasn't the best link to prove your case was it sunshine? At various places it's indicates how little research has been done on it with several areas not being clear notatcreamfields

3:52pm Mon 19 Nov 12

gazhopley says...

erm provide proof to "the FACT that cannabis demotivates people" I may not know much but I know there are hundreds of strains all of different strengths and a great many has different effects on the body, Its not as straight forward as you make out, and unless your scientific study looked at ALL strains including hybrids, I don't think it could be classified as REAL either. For every study there is a counter-study, for every expert who says cannabis is bad, there is a medical user who states that their lives have been improved from the use of this drug, all I know is what I learn from my own personal experience, and what I research and as having nerve , damage in my knee and having been on an OPIATE for over a year (Tramadol) I know there are some pretty horrible and perfectly legal synthetic drugs on the market, which are really addictive have terrible side affects both mental and physical.
erm provide proof to "the FACT that cannabis demotivates people" I may not know much but I know there are hundreds of strains all of different strengths and a great many has different effects on the body, Its not as straight forward as you make out, and unless your scientific study looked at ALL strains including hybrids, I don't think it could be classified as REAL either. For every study there is a counter-study, for every expert who says cannabis is bad, there is a medical user who states that their lives have been improved from the use of this drug, all I know is what I learn from my own personal experience, and what I research and as having nerve , damage in my knee and having been on an OPIATE for over a year (Tramadol) I know there are some pretty horrible and perfectly legal synthetic drugs on the market, which are really addictive have terrible side affects both mental and physical. gazhopley

3:53pm Mon 19 Nov 12

notatcreamfields says...

Sorry my mistake the browser went to the closest related single article. I've not looked individually into the articles at this time but the title's of the article's would hardly convince anyone that it's just a harmless herb would it? Like i said the majority of my views come from dealings with my job not a group of pot heads sat round a bong
Sorry my mistake the browser went to the closest related single article. I've not looked individually into the articles at this time but the title's of the article's would hardly convince anyone that it's just a harmless herb would it? Like i said the majority of my views come from dealings with my job not a group of pot heads sat round a bong notatcreamfields

4:01pm Mon 19 Nov 12

notatcreamfields says...

Gaz i was really ill myself and totally know what you mean about Tramadol (which isn't a typical opiate because it's effects on opiate receptors are minimul but it's actions as an anti depressant are very strong) it made me sick as a dog so i changed to Dihydrocodeine and as my treatment progressed onto Oxycodone and Fentanyl which work extremely well so maybe you should ask your GP about that instead of Tramadol. The downside for you is you will be periodically drug tested as they are controlled drugs and if anythin else shows up on your test your prescriptions will be stopped. Hope that advice helps you with your pain although i am suprised your GP hasn't taken you off tramadol if it's ineffective specially as you're getting severe pain?
Gaz i was really ill myself and totally know what you mean about Tramadol (which isn't a typical opiate because it's effects on opiate receptors are minimul but it's actions as an anti depressant are very strong) it made me sick as a dog so i changed to Dihydrocodeine and as my treatment progressed onto Oxycodone and Fentanyl which work extremely well so maybe you should ask your GP about that instead of Tramadol. The downside for you is you will be periodically drug tested as they are controlled drugs and if anythin else shows up on your test your prescriptions will be stopped. Hope that advice helps you with your pain although i am suprised your GP hasn't taken you off tramadol if it's ineffective specially as you're getting severe pain? notatcreamfields

4:06pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Babs Stanley says...

notatcreamfields wrote:
Sorry my mistake the browser went to the closest related single article. I've not looked individually into the articles at this time but the title's of the article's would hardly convince anyone that it's just a harmless herb would it? Like i said the majority of my views come from dealings with my job not a group of pot heads sat round a bong
"Like i said the majority of my views come from dealings with my job not a group of pot heads sat round a bong"

Ah, I see, so what concerns you are your own vested interests and abusing people. Are you sure you're a suitable person to "deal with cannabis use's social and medical effects nearly every day"?

I think not. In fact I would say that you have proven yourself to be entirely unsuitable.
[quote][p][bold]notatcreamfields[/bold] wrote: Sorry my mistake the browser went to the closest related single article. I've not looked individually into the articles at this time but the title's of the article's would hardly convince anyone that it's just a harmless herb would it? Like i said the majority of my views come from dealings with my job not a group of pot heads sat round a bong[/p][/quote]"Like i said the majority of my views come from dealings with my job not a group of pot heads sat round a bong" Ah, I see, so what concerns you are your own vested interests and abusing people. Are you sure you're a suitable person to "deal with cannabis use's social and medical effects nearly every day"? I think not. In fact I would say that you have proven yourself to be entirely unsuitable. Babs Stanley

4:07pm Mon 19 Nov 12

notatcreamfields says...

Gaz i know where you're coming from in relation to pain as i was seriously ill. Tramadol is an opiate type drug although it's opiate effects are very low but it's effects as an anti depressant are very high. It didn't do anything for me apart from make me sick, my GP changed me to Dihydrocodeine which worked very well and as my condition got worse i was changed to Oxycodone and Fentanyl which work extremely well. However you will be drug tested and if cannabis shows up on it your GP will no longer prescribe because these are controlled drugs but will greatly reduce your pain. I'm suprised that your GP hasn't taken you off Tramadol if it's not working specially while your pain in severe. Thankfully i'm better now so i don't need to take any pain killers now. I hope you do speak to your Doctor and get on medication that will help you.
Gaz i know where you're coming from in relation to pain as i was seriously ill. Tramadol is an opiate type drug although it's opiate effects are very low but it's effects as an anti depressant are very high. It didn't do anything for me apart from make me sick, my GP changed me to Dihydrocodeine which worked very well and as my condition got worse i was changed to Oxycodone and Fentanyl which work extremely well. However you will be drug tested and if cannabis shows up on it your GP will no longer prescribe because these are controlled drugs but will greatly reduce your pain. I'm suprised that your GP hasn't taken you off Tramadol if it's not working specially while your pain in severe. Thankfully i'm better now so i don't need to take any pain killers now. I hope you do speak to your Doctor and get on medication that will help you. notatcreamfields

4:11pm Mon 19 Nov 12

notatcreamfields says...

Very unsuitable to do my job? Don't think so Babs entirely the opposite, Cannabis is a class B drug making it illegal really does amaze me some of the comments "cannabis advocates" come out with, if i made it into a stand up show purely with some of the excuses i hear i'd be a multi millionaire
Very unsuitable to do my job? Don't think so Babs entirely the opposite, Cannabis is a class B drug making it illegal really does amaze me some of the comments "cannabis advocates" come out with, if i made it into a stand up show purely with some of the excuses i hear i'd be a multi millionaire notatcreamfields

4:15pm Mon 19 Nov 12

notatcreamfields says...

As for the numerous strains they all contain the same drug which people smoke it for which is THC. By labeling the different strains as different drugs is totally wrong that like saying 200mg Ibuprofen tablet is a different type than a 400mg Ibuprofen tablet when in fact they're the same drug but in different strengths
As for the numerous strains they all contain the same drug which people smoke it for which is THC. By labeling the different strains as different drugs is totally wrong that like saying 200mg Ibuprofen tablet is a different type than a 400mg Ibuprofen tablet when in fact they're the same drug but in different strengths notatcreamfields

4:58pm Mon 19 Nov 12

gazhopley says...

notatcreamfields wrote:
Sorry my mistake the browser went to the closest related single article. I've not looked individually into the articles at this time but the title's of the article's would hardly convince anyone that it's just a harmless herb would it? Like i said the majority of my views come from dealings with my job not a group of pot heads sat round a bong
WOW i hope your job doesn't involve the public coz what you just done there was to stereotype a group of the public unjustly, how about those who use it for medical use through an atomizer, what you are doing is confusing a common argument with your own out-dated beliefs with little or no research as you have just pointed out, and forget titles of articles for the most part they are meaningless compared to the content, what you HAVE done is shown exactly how out of touch you are, you believe so much in what your saying it doesn't matter to you what evidence you provide to prove your viewpoint or indeed whether the information is accurate or not.

And that is how much you don't read other peoples posts, WAS on Tramadol about 2 years ago, there was NO additional drug tests, and personally found it very easy to come off the drug... but that's just me, all drugs effect different people in different ways, so to say that one particular drug no matter what the differences in that drug affects ALL people the SAME way is, (how can I put this...) NONSENSE, and until you have been through the forced psychological changes that I have been though, you have no idea where I am coming from.

Here Is The Truth.
From the studies that has been carried out, Cannabis does have a positive medical effect in some cases, some meaning things like arthritis and not curing the common cold. The problem is All strains would have to be tested and there is too many to do that, and would cost too much money, for those who are having trouble keeping up, It has been proven that mobile phones do not interfere with aircraft systems during flight but they are still banned. because for them not to be banned every single phone would have to be tested against the frequency of the instruments of every aircraft. millions of phones, thousands of planes, not enough time not enough money, so the whole lot is banned. It's the same with cannabis, to state whether cannabis is harmful or helpful, tests would have to be carried out on every single kind of strain and hybrid to measure its positive or negative effects, and its going to be a very long time before that is done as chances are there would be a safe and useful strain there proving all the single minded "we have the knowledge without actually having the knowledge" types, that they were indeed wrong and to someone who is used to having that level of control, especially when that control is linked to their employment, being wrong is simply unacceptable.
And just so you know cannabis contains more than just THC in fact it contains lots, all having a different effect CBD's and CBN's being the most common those too have an affect on the body, It's not just about THC, The body and the brain is far more complex then you could possibly imagine. Why do you keep referring it as something for recreational use and not those who are looking for a medical treatment?

And finally absolutely agree ibuprofen is ibuprofen because that is the only thing in it, just to reiterate incase you missed it a bit further up, some strains of cannabis can contain up to 400 different chemicals THC, CBD, and CBN being the most common, but each strain would need to be tested to find the exact chemical composition. and what really gets me is... you really don't know much about this, I spend half hour on google and all your arguments disappear. I am not sure i would say that you are unsuitable to do your job but your lack of knowledge and desire to find the truth combined with (well) not a great sense of empathy means in your job you could be doing far more harm than good.
[quote][p][bold]notatcreamfields[/bold] wrote: Sorry my mistake the browser went to the closest related single article. I've not looked individually into the articles at this time but the title's of the article's would hardly convince anyone that it's just a harmless herb would it? Like i said the majority of my views come from dealings with my job not a group of pot heads sat round a bong[/p][/quote]WOW i hope your job doesn't involve the public coz what you just done there was to stereotype a group of the public unjustly, how about those who use it for medical use through an atomizer, what you are doing is confusing a common argument with your own out-dated beliefs with little or no research as you have just pointed out, and forget titles of articles for the most part they are meaningless compared to the content, what you HAVE done is shown exactly how out of touch you are, you believe so much in what your saying it doesn't matter to you what evidence you provide to prove your viewpoint or indeed whether the information is accurate or not. And that is how much you don't read other peoples posts, WAS on Tramadol about 2 years ago, there was NO additional drug tests, and personally found it very easy to come off the drug... but that's just me, all drugs effect different people in different ways, so to say that one particular drug no matter what the differences in that drug affects ALL people the SAME way is, (how can I put this...) NONSENSE, and until you have been through the forced psychological changes that I have been though, you have no idea where I am coming from. Here Is The Truth. From the studies that has been carried out, Cannabis does have a positive medical effect in some cases, some meaning things like arthritis and not curing the common cold. The problem is All strains would have to be tested and there is too many to do that, and would cost too much money, for those who are having trouble keeping up, It has been proven that mobile phones do not interfere with aircraft systems during flight but they are still banned. because for them not to be banned every single phone would have to be tested against the frequency of the instruments of every aircraft. millions of phones, thousands of planes, not enough time not enough money, so the whole lot is banned. It's the same with cannabis, to state whether cannabis is harmful or helpful, tests would have to be carried out on every single kind of strain and hybrid to measure its positive or negative effects, and its going to be a very long time before that is done as chances are there would be a safe and useful strain there proving all the single minded "we have the knowledge without actually having the knowledge" types, that they were indeed wrong and to someone who is used to having that level of control, especially when that control is linked to their employment, being wrong is simply unacceptable. And just so you know cannabis contains more than just THC in fact it contains lots, all having a different effect CBD's and CBN's being the most common those too have an affect on the body, It's not just about THC, The body and the brain is far more complex then you could possibly imagine. Why do you keep referring it as something for recreational use and not those who are looking for a medical treatment? And finally absolutely agree ibuprofen is ibuprofen because that is the only thing in it, just to reiterate incase you missed it a bit further up, some strains of cannabis can contain up to 400 different chemicals THC, CBD, and CBN being the most common, but each strain would need to be tested to find the exact chemical composition. and what really gets me is... you really don't know much about this, I spend half hour on google and all your arguments disappear. I am not sure i would say that you are unsuitable to do your job but your lack of knowledge and desire to find the truth combined with (well) not a great sense of empathy means in your job you could be doing far more harm than good. gazhopley

5:41pm Mon 19 Nov 12

notatcreamfields says...

Where did i mention that Doctors drug test when prescribing Tramadol? It's a weak drug that Warrington GPs use as a fix all over Codeine because it's got little to no abuse potential? Where did you say it was two years ago that you'd been using Tramadol and no longer use it? You said you'd been using it for a year, and where did i say tramadol and other opiates are particularly hard to come off? Personally i found it easy as do the majority of people that use them for pain and not recreation. Think it's you that needs to read your own comments and then mine before saying you're said stuff that you hadn't or i've said stuff that i hadn't. You mentioned cannabis for medical use and implied you'd used it for pain relief, that's Why i wrote down my personal experience with pain and when there's very good drugs that work and are Legal Why use something which is illegal? There may be some medical benefits to it but there's also medical benefits for heroin too. You can't seriously believe that the majority of cannabis users in the UK smoke it for medical reasons can you? In regards to America it's still illegal and if you've seen any of the programs on it the number of reasons that Doctors prescribe it are laughable, if Doctors in the US were prescribing pharmaceuticals for the number of patients asking for a cannabis licence they'd be struck of the register. Even the majority of medical case's in America admit to smoking it to get high rather than as a medicine. If the claims they're making are true we wouldn't need any other medication's ever apart from cannabis! In relation to stage 4 terminal cancer suffer's that's a totally different ball game, my personal beliefs on that are the patient should be able to use whatever they like whether Legal or illegal if it makes their last days, weeks, months on earth better. In future if you're basing what you say on your personal experiences which nobody can argue with cause only you know what it's like it's probably better to say your use was 2 years ago instead of being current which 99% of people reading your original comment would think. If it wasn't for the huge numbers of people abusing the drug with no medical need it prob would be easier for medical research to be done but the experiment in America where most people with a card openly admit they use it to get high and were prescribed it for example period pain maybe the Governments wouldn't think it was so open to abuse. If someone did use it for period pain they'd use it for probably 1 week out of a month there wouldn't be so much of an issue but they smoke it every day which makes the Doctor look like a fool. Also the Doctors who issue cards basically give their approvel to use as much as they like when they like. Any Doctor worth their while would not allow a patient to use a medication when they wanted with no control over how much they get, can you imagine if all Doctors did that? America already has a huge problem with prescription drug abuse which gladly the UK doesn't have. Maybe if amounts were controlled like any other prescription drugs even drug with no abuse value that are inexpensive with very low risk of damage from overdose are then maybe the people using medical use as an argument for legalisation would have more luck. The fact remains it cause's and worsen's mental illness which is a fact, in America the vast amount of people with a cannabis card do abuse the drug and if they went to say a British GP they wouldn't be prescribed any drug whatsoever for what they claim is wrong with them. The huge numbers who abuse it privately but publically say they use it for a medical condition is ridiculous. It's the same with heroin, it's an extremely usefull drug with proven medical benefits and is still used in UK hospitals but because of the number of people who abuse it it's tightly controlled. If legalisation for medical needs happened if wouldn't cut down the amount of people using it legally and it probably wouldn't increase the amount of people who use it illegally either but the medical benefits people state are ridiculous so far as to say it cures or makes things easier for people suffering A to Z. Another fact is opiates are the best anti depressants on the earth bar non and you could easily argue that they'd help in hundreds of different illness's and they prob would but drugs which cause less harm with little to no abuse potential are used to cut down on the amount of addictive drugs prescribed. Unless someone proves that it's good for a few illness's better than existing options the medical excuse is totally blown out of the water. While there's millions of people claiming to use it for medical use for 1001 illness's the law isn't going to change because the mental damage it cause's does not balance with any health benefits other than terminally ill patients. As for people who use the it's natural argument so is opium and so is the precurser chemical for ecstasy and i'd imagine much more clandestinely produced drugs.
Where did i mention that Doctors drug test when prescribing Tramadol? It's a weak drug that Warrington GPs use as a fix all over Codeine because it's got little to no abuse potential? Where did you say it was two years ago that you'd been using Tramadol and no longer use it? You said you'd been using it for a year, and where did i say tramadol and other opiates are particularly hard to come off? Personally i found it easy as do the majority of people that use them for pain and not recreation. Think it's you that needs to read your own comments and then mine before saying you're said stuff that you hadn't or i've said stuff that i hadn't. You mentioned cannabis for medical use and implied you'd used it for pain relief, that's Why i wrote down my personal experience with pain and when there's very good drugs that work and are Legal Why use something which is illegal? There may be some medical benefits to it but there's also medical benefits for heroin too. You can't seriously believe that the majority of cannabis users in the UK smoke it for medical reasons can you? In regards to America it's still illegal and if you've seen any of the programs on it the number of reasons that Doctors prescribe it are laughable, if Doctors in the US were prescribing pharmaceuticals for the number of patients asking for a cannabis licence they'd be struck of the register. Even the majority of medical case's in America admit to smoking it to get high rather than as a medicine. If the claims they're making are true we wouldn't need any other medication's ever apart from cannabis! In relation to stage 4 terminal cancer suffer's that's a totally different ball game, my personal beliefs on that are the patient should be able to use whatever they like whether Legal or illegal if it makes their last days, weeks, months on earth better. In future if you're basing what you say on your personal experiences which nobody can argue with cause only you know what it's like it's probably better to say your use was 2 years ago instead of being current which 99% of people reading your original comment would think. If it wasn't for the huge numbers of people abusing the drug with no medical need it prob would be easier for medical research to be done but the experiment in America where most people with a card openly admit they use it to get high and were prescribed it for example period pain maybe the Governments wouldn't think it was so open to abuse. If someone did use it for period pain they'd use it for probably 1 week out of a month there wouldn't be so much of an issue but they smoke it every day which makes the Doctor look like a fool. Also the Doctors who issue cards basically give their approvel to use as much as they like when they like. Any Doctor worth their while would not allow a patient to use a medication when they wanted with no control over how much they get, can you imagine if all Doctors did that? America already has a huge problem with prescription drug abuse which gladly the UK doesn't have. Maybe if amounts were controlled like any other prescription drugs even drug with no abuse value that are inexpensive with very low risk of damage from overdose are then maybe the people using medical use as an argument for legalisation would have more luck. The fact remains it cause's and worsen's mental illness which is a fact, in America the vast amount of people with a cannabis card do abuse the drug and if they went to say a British GP they wouldn't be prescribed any drug whatsoever for what they claim is wrong with them. The huge numbers who abuse it privately but publically say they use it for a medical condition is ridiculous. It's the same with heroin, it's an extremely usefull drug with proven medical benefits and is still used in UK hospitals but because of the number of people who abuse it it's tightly controlled. If legalisation for medical needs happened if wouldn't cut down the amount of people using it legally and it probably wouldn't increase the amount of people who use it illegally either but the medical benefits people state are ridiculous so far as to say it cures or makes things easier for people suffering A to Z. Another fact is opiates are the best anti depressants on the earth bar non and you could easily argue that they'd help in hundreds of different illness's and they prob would but drugs which cause less harm with little to no abuse potential are used to cut down on the amount of addictive drugs prescribed. Unless someone proves that it's good for a few illness's better than existing options the medical excuse is totally blown out of the water. While there's millions of people claiming to use it for medical use for 1001 illness's the law isn't going to change because the mental damage it cause's does not balance with any health benefits other than terminally ill patients. As for people who use the it's natural argument so is opium and so is the precurser chemical for ecstasy and i'd imagine much more clandestinely produced drugs. notatcreamfields

5:44pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Babs Stanley says...

notatcreamfields wrote:
As for the numerous strains they all contain the same drug which people smoke it for which is THC. By labeling the different strains as different drugs is totally wrong that like saying 200mg Ibuprofen tablet is a different type than a 400mg Ibuprofen tablet when in fact they're the same drug but in different strengths
Just another demonstration of your absolute ignorance.

Cannabis contains more than 400 compounds; cannabinoids, terpines, flavonoids and others, all of which interact synergistically to produce very different pharmacological effects depending on the strain.
[quote][p][bold]notatcreamfields[/bold] wrote: As for the numerous strains they all contain the same drug which people smoke it for which is THC. By labeling the different strains as different drugs is totally wrong that like saying 200mg Ibuprofen tablet is a different type than a 400mg Ibuprofen tablet when in fact they're the same drug but in different strengths[/p][/quote]Just another demonstration of your absolute ignorance. Cannabis contains more than 400 compounds; cannabinoids, terpines, flavonoids and others, all of which interact synergistically to produce very different pharmacological effects depending on the strain. Babs Stanley

5:53pm Mon 19 Nov 12

notatcreamfields says...

Babs Stanley wrote:
notatcreamfields wrote:
As for the numerous strains they all contain the same drug which people smoke it for which is THC. By labeling the different strains as different drugs is totally wrong that like saying 200mg Ibuprofen tablet is a different type than a 400mg Ibuprofen tablet when in fact they're the same drug but in different strengths
Just another demonstration of your absolute ignorance.

Cannabis contains more than 400 compounds; cannabinoids, terpines, flavonoids and others, all of which interact synergistically to produce very different pharmacological effects depending on the strain.
So does Tobacco too but doesnt make people state different strains are less harmfull, tobacco is also a very good cough suppersent but it's not used medically because of the amount of damage it causes
[quote][p][bold]Babs Stanley[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]notatcreamfields[/bold] wrote: As for the numerous strains they all contain the same drug which people smoke it for which is THC. By labeling the different strains as different drugs is totally wrong that like saying 200mg Ibuprofen tablet is a different type than a 400mg Ibuprofen tablet when in fact they're the same drug but in different strengths[/p][/quote]Just another demonstration of your absolute ignorance. Cannabis contains more than 400 compounds; cannabinoids, terpines, flavonoids and others, all of which interact synergistically to produce very different pharmacological effects depending on the strain.[/p][/quote]So does Tobacco too but doesnt make people state different strains are less harmfull, tobacco is also a very good cough suppersent but it's not used medically because of the amount of damage it causes notatcreamfields

5:58pm Mon 19 Nov 12

notatcreamfields says...

As for mobile phones and aircrafts there's a reason they're not used on aircrafts and that's because they don't work not because they mess about with flight instruments, i'd like to hear where you discovered that somehow they'd work at crusing height of a jet airliner.
As for mobile phones and aircrafts there's a reason they're not used on aircrafts and that's because they don't work not because they mess about with flight instruments, i'd like to hear where you discovered that somehow they'd work at crusing height of a jet airliner. notatcreamfields

6:07pm Mon 19 Nov 12

notatcreamfields says...

And as for stating you've been through "forced psychological changes" i'm saying this not as someone being against or for cannabis but someone concerned for somebody else. I seriously hope that you're not using cannabis now or any other psychoactive drug that's not been prescribed by your care provider and it certainly makes sense Why you were prescribed only tramadol. I seriously hope you get back on the right track and have a long and successful life and not think of help as forced psychological change and more as help in getting your life in order
And as for stating you've been through "forced psychological changes" i'm saying this not as someone being against or for cannabis but someone concerned for somebody else. I seriously hope that you're not using cannabis now or any other psychoactive drug that's not been prescribed by your care provider and it certainly makes sense Why you were prescribed only tramadol. I seriously hope you get back on the right track and have a long and successful life and not think of help as forced psychological change and more as help in getting your life in order notatcreamfields

6:24pm Mon 19 Nov 12

gazhopley says...

I know babs he seems a little panicky now, not saying he is, just he seems to be, that's the difference between being on tramadol for a year and having BEEN on tramadol for a year, and he does say in his post.... "The downside for you is you will be periodically drug tested as they are controlled drugs and if anythin else shows up on your test your prescriptions will be stopped." and again to reiterate I wasn't. so let me get this straight and let me be absolutely clear notatcreamfields, you are comparing cannabis to heroin, heroin obviously comes from opium, the same as things like codeine, codeine of which is still banned in some countries ie greece, its all not as straight forward as you make out, this is far more complicated than simply saying cannabis is no good, and you can talk about america all you want, the fact and it is a fact we are genetically no different from those who live in america where it is documented that in some cases cannabis is beneficial to ease the suffering of patients... not all patients but as i said its far more complicated that you are making out.

Really need to read my comments. Didn't say plane in flight, even having a working mobile on a plane still on the ground is illegal, and if you want to know where my information came from for that... easy... MYTHBUSTERS.

and really don't bother with that oo if you like natural then there's opium and that's where ecstasy comes from... ecstasy, heroin, codeine all manufactured from opium, not opium in its natural form, as cannabis stays in its natural form.

as for my F.T.P.E, it's an external cause, kind of like P.T.S.D but with a few unusual side effects. and i didnt say tramadol was the only thing i was on... all prescribed and all perfectly legal so what you have done yet again is make presumptions based on what i am gathering is your own experience. I am certainly not looking for help... dont you get it yet, I AM THE HELP.
I know babs he seems a little panicky now, not saying he is, just he seems to be, that's the difference between being on tramadol for a year and having BEEN on tramadol for a year, and he does say in his post.... "The downside for you is you will be periodically drug tested as they are controlled drugs and if anythin else shows up on your test your prescriptions will be stopped." and again to reiterate I wasn't. so let me get this straight and let me be absolutely clear notatcreamfields, you are comparing cannabis to heroin, heroin obviously comes from opium, the same as things like codeine, codeine of which is still banned in some countries ie greece, its all not as straight forward as you make out, this is far more complicated than simply saying cannabis is no good, and you can talk about america all you want, the fact and it is a fact we are genetically no different from those who live in america where it is documented that in some cases cannabis is beneficial to ease the suffering of patients... not all patients but as i said its far more complicated that you are making out. Really need to read my comments. Didn't say plane in flight, even having a working mobile on a plane still on the ground is illegal, and if you want to know where my information came from for that... easy... MYTHBUSTERS. and really don't bother with that oo if you like natural then there's opium and that's where ecstasy comes from... ecstasy, heroin, codeine all manufactured from opium, not opium in its natural form, as cannabis stays in its natural form. as for my F.T.P.E, it's an external cause, kind of like P.T.S.D but with a few unusual side effects. and i didnt say tramadol was the only thing i was on... all prescribed and all perfectly legal so what you have done yet again is make presumptions based on what i am gathering is your own experience. I am certainly not looking for help... dont you get it yet, I AM THE HELP. gazhopley

6:38pm Mon 19 Nov 12

notatcreamfields says...

Gaz really what are you on about? You're not going to say i've being on tramadol for a year are you? Seriously read some of what you're writting....... As for phone's being banned yes they are in America but not in the UK it's down to airlines whether to allow them or not so don't know where you're going with that one
Gaz really what are you on about? You're not going to say i've being on tramadol for a year are you? Seriously read some of what you're writting....... As for phone's being banned yes they are in America but not in the UK it's down to airlines whether to allow them or not so don't know where you're going with that one notatcreamfields

6:45pm Mon 19 Nov 12

notatcreamfields says...

Most people would say i had a knee problem a couple of years ago and i was prescribed tramadol and if you never had problems personally getting off it most people wouldn't bother to write about addictivness because you didn't have a problem with it? Don't know where you're comments are going but they're getting more bizarre. Tramadol IS NOT a controlled drug so drug test's by GPs are not common to ensure compliance please tell me where i've indicated tests are routine for tramadol patients? In regards to Oxycodone and Fentanyl THEY ARE controlled drugs which often include tests to ensure compliance. I find it really strange that you're saying i've said stuff that i haven't or that your statement which would indicated current tramadol usage to anyone reading it somehow really means it was in the past? Dunno what planet you're on but it certainly isn't earth
Most people would say i had a knee problem a couple of years ago and i was prescribed tramadol and if you never had problems personally getting off it most people wouldn't bother to write about addictivness because you didn't have a problem with it? Don't know where you're comments are going but they're getting more bizarre. Tramadol IS NOT a controlled drug so drug test's by GPs are not common to ensure compliance please tell me where i've indicated tests are routine for tramadol patients? In regards to Oxycodone and Fentanyl THEY ARE controlled drugs which often include tests to ensure compliance. I find it really strange that you're saying i've said stuff that i haven't or that your statement which would indicated current tramadol usage to anyone reading it somehow really means it was in the past? Dunno what planet you're on but it certainly isn't earth notatcreamfields

6:55pm Mon 19 Nov 12

notatcreamfields says...

Not gonna reply to anything more cause you're obviously stressing yourself out with your increasingly bizarre statements just take a few deep breaths and make yourself a cup of tea or something cause the rest of the population don't think in the same ways as you even replying to Bab when she's made no statement to reply to about or even said anything about being panicy? Really am worried about what you're reading and what your brain is saying which are two totally different things
Not gonna reply to anything more cause you're obviously stressing yourself out with your increasingly bizarre statements just take a few deep breaths and make yourself a cup of tea or something cause the rest of the population don't think in the same ways as you even replying to Bab when she's made no statement to reply to about or even said anything about being panicy? Really am worried about what you're reading and what your brain is saying which are two totally different things notatcreamfields

7:17pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Babs Stanley says...

notatcreamfields wrote:
Not gonna reply to anything more cause you're obviously stressing yourself out with your increasingly bizarre statements just take a few deep breaths and make yourself a cup of tea or something cause the rest of the population don't think in the same ways as you even replying to Bab when she's made no statement to reply to about or even said anything about being panicy? Really am worried about what you're reading and what your brain is saying which are two totally different things
You seem to be exhibiting very disturbing behaviour.

I suggest you go and calm down. Panicky is a fair description of your tone. But I can see why you're panicky because your attitude and statements are so unsupportable. You come across as quite ridiculous.

Do yourself a favour and turn the computer off.
[quote][p][bold]notatcreamfields[/bold] wrote: Not gonna reply to anything more cause you're obviously stressing yourself out with your increasingly bizarre statements just take a few deep breaths and make yourself a cup of tea or something cause the rest of the population don't think in the same ways as you even replying to Bab when she's made no statement to reply to about or even said anything about being panicy? Really am worried about what you're reading and what your brain is saying which are two totally different things[/p][/quote]You seem to be exhibiting very disturbing behaviour. I suggest you go and calm down. Panicky is a fair description of your tone. But I can see why you're panicky because your attitude and statements are so unsupportable. You come across as quite ridiculous. Do yourself a favour and turn the computer off. Babs Stanley

7:17pm Mon 19 Nov 12

chunkymunky says...

Just goes to prove the point I made earlier......angry militant 'comment warriors'....hence why I steer clear of any 'debating' with this lot!! No discussion, just angry ramblings!!
Just goes to prove the point I made earlier......angry militant 'comment warriors'....hence why I steer clear of any 'debating' with this lot!! No discussion, just angry ramblings!! chunkymunky

7:27pm Mon 19 Nov 12

notatcreamfields says...

chunkymunky wrote:
Just goes to prove the point I made earlier......angry militant 'comment warriors'....hence why I steer clear of any 'debating' with this lot!! No discussion, just angry ramblings!!
Totally agree although i still stand with the point terminally ill people should be allowed to use any drug they want if it makes things easier cause doesn't matter whether it cause's mental imbalances as it's clear to see a few cannabis advocates obviously struggle with
[quote][p][bold]chunkymunky[/bold] wrote: Just goes to prove the point I made earlier......angry militant 'comment warriors'....hence why I steer clear of any 'debating' with this lot!! No discussion, just angry ramblings!![/p][/quote]Totally agree although i still stand with the point terminally ill people should be allowed to use any drug they want if it makes things easier cause doesn't matter whether it cause's mental imbalances as it's clear to see a few cannabis advocates obviously struggle with notatcreamfields

10:13pm Mon 19 Nov 12

the dr who says...

I get the feeling that people have a few identities on here!!! and use them to agree with themselves when they need the backup
I get the feeling that people have a few identities on here!!! and use them to agree with themselves when they need the backup the dr who

11:10am Tue 20 Nov 12

gazhopley says...

notatcreamfields wrote:
Not gonna reply to anything more cause you're obviously stressing yourself out with your increasingly bizarre statements just take a few deep breaths and make yourself a cup of tea or something cause the rest of the population don't think in the same ways as you even replying to Bab when she's made no statement to reply to about or even said anything about being panicy? Really am worried about what you're reading and what your brain is saying which are two totally different things
I didn't reply because frankly I have better things to do with my life than argue with someone who tries to press their own opinion on others without all the information. I can't say cannabis is good or bad because I don't have all the information and that's the point I have been trying to put across, you don't have all the information, you can express your opinion but you are simply not qualified to judge others by their opinions, no matter how wrong YOU think they are as there is always the possibility that it is you that is wrong. to force your will and your opinion on others WITHOUT regard for the truth (which again to reiterate we don't know) is wrong, you are trying to bully people into thinking your way, trying to be as clever as you can hoping your self importance will sway people into thinking like you, again which is wrong, except your not really that clever, because if you was you would hold your opinion until you had all the facts, look at the stereotypical comments you have made, that doesn't come from knowledge, frankly it shows a lack of intelligence, if there is a gap to what you know, instead of finding the answer, you fill it with any old rubbish that suits your argument whether its right or not, you are so interested in trying to prove your cleverer than someone else that you don't even research what you say, throw web pages on as reference without even reading them, this whole line of comments isn't about cannabis, it's just you trying to prove that you are cleverer than everyone else, but all you have done is shown your total lack of intelligence, I really am not interested what self-esteem issues you have or your distaste for people that you don't understand.
It's one thing to have knowledge but it's another to understand it. And a bit of knowledge for you, if you want to find the truth about someone, put them off guard, ask a question they don't expect or in my case, I like bizarre and creative comments, its how I find the truth. Everything I do has a reason... and I do it well
[quote][p][bold]notatcreamfields[/bold] wrote: Not gonna reply to anything more cause you're obviously stressing yourself out with your increasingly bizarre statements just take a few deep breaths and make yourself a cup of tea or something cause the rest of the population don't think in the same ways as you even replying to Bab when she's made no statement to reply to about or even said anything about being panicy? Really am worried about what you're reading and what your brain is saying which are two totally different things[/p][/quote]I didn't reply because frankly I have better things to do with my life than argue with someone who tries to press their own opinion on others without all the information. I can't say cannabis is good or bad because I don't have all the information and that's the point I have been trying to put across, you don't have all the information, you can express your opinion but you are simply not qualified to judge others by their opinions, no matter how wrong YOU think they are as there is always the possibility that it is you that is wrong. to force your will and your opinion on others WITHOUT regard for the truth (which again to reiterate we don't know) is wrong, you are trying to bully people into thinking your way, trying to be as clever as you can hoping your self importance will sway people into thinking like you, again which is wrong, except your not really that clever, because if you was you would hold your opinion until you had all the facts, look at the stereotypical comments you have made, that doesn't come from knowledge, frankly it shows a lack of intelligence, if there is a gap to what you know, instead of finding the answer, you fill it with any old rubbish that suits your argument whether its right or not, you are so interested in trying to prove your cleverer than someone else that you don't even research what you say, throw web pages on as reference without even reading them, this whole line of comments isn't about cannabis, it's just you trying to prove that you are cleverer than everyone else, but all you have done is shown your total lack of intelligence, I really am not interested what self-esteem issues you have or your distaste for people that you don't understand. It's one thing to have knowledge but it's another to understand it. And a bit of knowledge for you, if you want to find the truth about someone, put them off guard, ask a question they don't expect or in my case, I like bizarre and creative comments, its how I find the truth. Everything I do has a reason... and I do it well gazhopley

2:30pm Tue 20 Nov 12

steve keavey says...

i think the 2 guys were very harshly treated, i mean people are going to be smoking cannabis anyway, why not 2 local guys benefit from it, rather than a family from liverpool or manchester
i think the 2 guys were very harshly treated, i mean people are going to be smoking cannabis anyway, why not 2 local guys benefit from it, rather than a family from liverpool or manchester steve keavey

2:34pm Tue 20 Nov 12

gerrumonside says...

Anyway.......back to the top and legalising Cannabis and regulating it's supply....one question Whats the point?

Loads of cost and red tape in laws and regulations.
Loads of cost and red tape in Licences and training from issuing pharmacists.
Loads of cost and red tape in setting up Health and safety and compliance regulatory bodies on ensuring it's distribution is monitored.
Loads of cost from local councils doing spot checks making sure minors aren't able to purchase....etc etc etc

its cheaper to keep it illegal and bust a few unfortunate souls once in a while, like these two.

end of debate, move on, sort out bigger problems.
Anyway.......back to the top and legalising Cannabis and regulating it's supply....one question Whats the point? Loads of cost and red tape in laws and regulations. Loads of cost and red tape in Licences and training from issuing pharmacists. Loads of cost and red tape in setting up Health and safety and compliance regulatory bodies on ensuring it's distribution is monitored. Loads of cost from local councils doing spot checks making sure minors aren't able to purchase....etc etc etc its cheaper to keep it illegal and bust a few unfortunate souls once in a while, like these two. end of debate, move on, sort out bigger problems. gerrumonside

2:42pm Tue 20 Nov 12

steve keavey says...

theres no jobs out there at the minute, people have no choice but to grow, sell weed.
theres no jobs out there at the minute, people have no choice but to grow, sell weed. steve keavey

2:42pm Tue 20 Nov 12

steve keavey says...

theres no jobs out there at the minute, people have no choice but to grow, sell weed.
theres no jobs out there at the minute, people have no choice but to grow, sell weed. steve keavey

3:55pm Tue 20 Nov 12

Cleopatra says...

Well, reading all those comments have passed a good few minutes, nothing more. All failed to sway me one way or the other. Yaaaaaaaaaaaawn.
Well, reading all those comments have passed a good few minutes, nothing more. All failed to sway me one way or the other. Yaaaaaaaaaaaawn. Cleopatra

4:53pm Tue 20 Nov 12

steve keavey says...

well what else have you been doing cleopatra. your probably sat at home watching jeremy kyle waiting for your other half to come home from his paper round
well what else have you been doing cleopatra. your probably sat at home watching jeremy kyle waiting for your other half to come home from his paper round steve keavey

7:10am Thu 22 Nov 12

SickAndTired2 says...

Saysitasitis wrote:
Are your lives so dull, boring, non eventful, stressfull, energetic etc etc that you need cannabis to make it all better....or any drug (not related to an illness obviously)
Get out, get a hobby, get some exercise....GET A LIFE!!!
I run two businesses, I'm a successful Dj, I do Thai Boxing 3 times a week. I have a loving family. I have a wide and varied circle of highly intelligent and fun loving and creative friends and we all enjoy our favourite herbal tipple, cannabis.

Who the hell are you to pass judgement on anyone, over the choice of herbs they wish to consume?

People like you make me sick, sitting their pontificating from you keyboard as if you know it all, when in actual fact your world is most likely vastly smaller than mine.
[quote][p][bold]Saysitasitis[/bold] wrote: Are your lives so dull, boring, non eventful, stressfull, energetic etc etc that you need cannabis to make it all better....or any drug (not related to an illness obviously) Get out, get a hobby, get some exercise....GET A LIFE!!![/p][/quote]I run two businesses, I'm a successful Dj, I do Thai Boxing 3 times a week. I have a loving family. I have a wide and varied circle of highly intelligent and fun loving and creative friends and we all enjoy our favourite herbal tipple, cannabis. Who the hell are you to pass judgement on anyone, over the choice of herbs they wish to consume? People like you make me sick, sitting their pontificating from you keyboard as if you know it all, when in actual fact your world is most likely vastly smaller than mine. SickAndTired2

7:15am Thu 22 Nov 12

SickAndTired2 says...

notatcreamfields wrote:
Research clearly demonstrates
that marijuana has the potential
to cause problems in daily life or
make a person's existing
problems worse. Probably wasn't the best link to prove your case was it sunshine? At various places it's indicates how little research has been done on it with several areas not being clear
Research also clearly demonstrates that cannabis has even greater potential for improving the lives of many many more people who are suffering from serious, debilitating and terminal illnesses.

There is vastly more evidence for the safety and efficacy of cannabis has a recreational and medicinal than there is proving the opposite.

I suggest you extend your reading to beyond that which you have come to believe.

Bottom line is, prohibition is a massive failure.
[quote][p][bold]notatcreamfields[/bold] wrote: Research clearly demonstrates that marijuana has the potential to cause problems in daily life or make a person's existing problems worse. Probably wasn't the best link to prove your case was it sunshine? At various places it's indicates how little research has been done on it with several areas not being clear[/p][/quote]Research also clearly demonstrates that cannabis has even greater potential for improving the lives of many many more people who are suffering from serious, debilitating and terminal illnesses. There is vastly more evidence for the safety and efficacy of cannabis has a recreational and medicinal than there is proving the opposite. I suggest you extend your reading to beyond that which you have come to believe. Bottom line is, prohibition is a massive failure. SickAndTired2

7:29am Thu 22 Nov 12

SickAndTired2 says...

notatcreamfields wrote:
I agree the amount was small but people "claiming" that it's harmless because of all the tests what have been done on it are full of manure. There's not been much scientific testing done on it but the ones that have been done suggest it cause's mental illness after long term use and massively increases symtoms of people with mental illness. Giving that one in five people will suffer from dandruff in their lives yet one in four will suffer from mental illness is very concerning and proves the case it does damage the population. All it takes is walking past the job center of an afternoon and seeing the amount of people smoking spliffs and the state of them doesn't really do the legalisation case any good. The test's most cannabis users talk about is non scientific tests done by users with the large number of people suffering because of it scrubbed from the record.
No one is claiming that's harmless. But it's harm in relative terms has been scientifically proven to be less than that of most prescription drugs.

There have been hundreds if not thousands of studies done on cannabis so where you have conveniently plucked this notion from to suit your argument is as bizarre as it is false.

The studies around mental health impacts have drawn no conclusive proof to correlate cannabis with schizophrenia. Indeed, the latest study conducted at Keele University has further confirmed this.

Your comparison between dandruff suffers and mental health suffers is just nonsense. Schizophrenia rates in this country are actually in decline.

Yet again you are using prejudice and bigotry to suit your agenda by directly correlating unemployment with cannabis use. This again is baseless opinion from out of your own ignorance and prejudice.

Equally I can argue that every cannabis smoker I know has a highly successful career, a happy and stable home life and an energetic social life. Cannabis is used by Doctors, lawyers, teachers, musicians, nurses, managers, business leaders. It's use just about transcends every social and economic demographic you can think of, yet all you can do is paint a narrow minded, bigoted opinion of the 'great unwashed' queuing up outside the job centre getting stoned.

I can also argue that cannabis brings relief to many thousands of people suffering from chronic and debilitating relief.

As for these 'non scientific' tests you claim we talk about, this is yet more hogwash and fantasy cooked up in that tine bigoted and hysterical mind of yours to suit your own agenda.

Here you go:

http://medicalmariju
ana.procon.org/view.
resource.php?resourc
eID=000884

105 scientific peer reviewed studies involving cannabis.

Here we go: norml.org/component/
zoo/category/recent-
research-on-medical-
marijuana

Another report citing reference to a further 20,000 peer reviewed studies conducted for medical marijuana's efficacy.

Oh look what's this??

http://scholar.googl
e.co.uk/scholar?q=th
e+endocannabinoid+sy
stem&hl=en&as_sdt=0&
as_vis=1&oi=scholart
&sa=X&ei=m9OtUJq6PLS
k0AWk6IHwAg&ved=0CC8
QgQMwAA

Scholarly articles referring to the human endocannabinoid system.


http://www.labnews.c
o.uk/news/cannabis-d
estroys-cancer-cells
/

Cannabis destroying cancer cells (this has been known since 1974, but our caring and responsible governments don't want you to know that because big pharma is making too much money from the 'cancer industryy').

notatcreamfields, I really cannot understand why you persist in spouting such bigoted, hysterical and factually baseless nonsense regarding subjects you clearly know nothing about.

You prove yourself time and again to be ignorant of the truth, basing your 'opinion' on nothing more than mainstream media headlines and hypocrisy.
[quote][p][bold]notatcreamfields[/bold] wrote: I agree the amount was small but people "claiming" that it's harmless because of all the tests what have been done on it are full of manure. There's not been much scientific testing done on it but the ones that have been done suggest it cause's mental illness after long term use and massively increases symtoms of people with mental illness. Giving that one in five people will suffer from dandruff in their lives yet one in four will suffer from mental illness is very concerning and proves the case it does damage the population. All it takes is walking past the job center of an afternoon and seeing the amount of people smoking spliffs and the state of them doesn't really do the legalisation case any good. The test's most cannabis users talk about is non scientific tests done by users with the large number of people suffering because of it scrubbed from the record.[/p][/quote]No one is claiming that's harmless. But it's harm in relative terms has been scientifically proven to be less than that of most prescription drugs. There have been hundreds if not thousands of studies done on cannabis so where you have conveniently plucked this notion from to suit your argument is as bizarre as it is false. The studies around mental health impacts have drawn no conclusive proof to correlate cannabis with schizophrenia. Indeed, the latest study conducted at Keele University has further confirmed this. Your comparison between dandruff suffers and mental health suffers is just nonsense. Schizophrenia rates in this country are actually in decline. Yet again you are using prejudice and bigotry to suit your agenda by directly correlating unemployment with cannabis use. This again is baseless opinion from out of your own ignorance and prejudice. Equally I can argue that every cannabis smoker I know has a highly successful career, a happy and stable home life and an energetic social life. Cannabis is used by Doctors, lawyers, teachers, musicians, nurses, managers, business leaders. It's use just about transcends every social and economic demographic you can think of, yet all you can do is paint a narrow minded, bigoted opinion of the 'great unwashed' queuing up outside the job centre getting stoned. I can also argue that cannabis brings relief to many thousands of people suffering from chronic and debilitating relief. As for these 'non scientific' tests you claim we talk about, this is yet more hogwash and fantasy cooked up in that tine bigoted and hysterical mind of yours to suit your own agenda. Here you go: http://medicalmariju ana.procon.org/view. resource.php?resourc eID=000884 105 scientific peer reviewed studies involving cannabis. Here we go: norml.org/component/ zoo/category/recent- research-on-medical- marijuana Another report citing reference to a further 20,000 peer reviewed studies conducted for medical marijuana's efficacy. Oh look what's this?? http://scholar.googl e.co.uk/scholar?q=th e+endocannabinoid+sy stem&hl=en&as_sdt=0& as_vis=1&oi=scholart &sa=X&ei=m9OtUJq6PLS k0AWk6IHwAg&ved=0CC8 QgQMwAA Scholarly articles referring to the human endocannabinoid system. http://www.labnews.c o.uk/news/cannabis-d estroys-cancer-cells / Cannabis destroying cancer cells (this has been known since 1974, but our caring and responsible governments don't want you to know that because big pharma is making too much money from the 'cancer industryy'). notatcreamfields, I really cannot understand why you persist in spouting such bigoted, hysterical and factually baseless nonsense regarding subjects you clearly know nothing about. You prove yourself time and again to be ignorant of the truth, basing your 'opinion' on nothing more than mainstream media headlines and hypocrisy. SickAndTired2

6:35pm Sat 24 Nov 12

SickAndTired2 says...

Cleopatra wrote:
Well, reading all those comments have passed a good few minutes, nothing more. All failed to sway me one way or the other. Yaaaaaaaaaaaawn.
No one cares what you think anyway Cleopatra. Go back to sleep, your government is taking care of you.
[quote][p][bold]Cleopatra[/bold] wrote: Well, reading all those comments have passed a good few minutes, nothing more. All failed to sway me one way or the other. Yaaaaaaaaaaaawn.[/p][/quote]No one cares what you think anyway Cleopatra. Go back to sleep, your government is taking care of you. SickAndTired2

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