Mutiny on the buses over travel restrictions

10:50am Friday 13th July 2012 in News

Oliver Thomason Oliver Thomason

NETWORK Warrington has apologised to a 20-year-old passenger with Down’s Syndrome who was left standing at a bus stop because he was travelling three minutes earlier than his pass allows.

Oliver Thomason tried to use the 9.27am Service 3 bus from Monmouth Close, Woolston, on June 20.

He holds a disabled pass that allows travel from 9.30am and uses the service three days a week to get to work in the cafe at The Gateway, on Sankey Street.

After boarding with other passengers he was told to get off the bus which was then driven away.

Mum Fiona, aged 51, from Woolston, complained to bosses at Network Warrington.

She said: “I spoke to the bus company who said that it would be sorted and should not be happening.

“I’m not looking to cause trouble I’m just looking after my son’s safety.

“I really don’t want it escalating, him being left and something happening to him.”

Following the incident in June, Mark Harrison, operations co-ordinator, sent a written apology to Mrs Thomason.

It read: ‘I was dismayed that our driver had failed to pick your son up. I have arranged for CCTV footage to be recovered, the driver has been spoken to and dealt with in accordance with company policy.’ But the Green Lane School teaching assistant says it is the third time Oliver has been barred from the bus in 18 months. Each time an apology was given. Now she wants assurances he will be allowed to travel.

David Squire, managing director of Network Warrington, said: "There are two types of disabled pass, one that gives travel all day and one for post-0930 only, her son clearly has the latter.

"The passes are issued by the local authorities (not ourselves) and we do not set the time rules.

"However, the traffic manager has told our drivers to exercise discretion for the sake of a couple of minutes and we have re-iterated that instruction.

"I’m sorry for any inconvenience caused."

Comments(53)

moleogod says...
11:00am Fri 13 Jul 12

the 9:30am rule is just ridiculous it should be from 7:30 onwards. the 9:30 rules makes it hard for people who are disabled or over 65 who might still work or do there best to keep there independence and want or need to go out earlier than 9:30. there should be no restrictions on time across the UK

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MikeJT says...
11:10am Fri 13 Jul 12

Totally agree with moleogod that the 9.30am start for the scheme is stupid. Afterall its not as if the buses are crammed. I see that the MD of Network Warrington was quick to pass the buck to WBC...(technically he is wrong as the times are set nationally BUT yes, WBC can overrule them locally). And what the heck are "travel managers". If he means the drivers then I have varying feelings....a) On a "humane" level the driver should have let this gentleman, b) on a "public" level NW is syaing it is telling "travel managers" to use discretion, BUT c) in private it is probably hammering home to its drivers RULES IS RULES and no concessions and probably using the same CCTV footage to beat the drivers with.

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The Maestro says...
11:26am Fri 13 Jul 12

MikeJT wrote:
Totally agree with moleogod that the 9.30am start for the scheme is stupid. Afterall its not as if the buses are crammed. I see that the MD of Network Warrington was quick to pass the buck to WBC...(technically he is wrong as the times are set nationally BUT yes, WBC can overrule them locally). And what the heck are "travel managers". If he means the drivers then I have varying feelings....a) On a "humane" level the driver should have let this gentleman, b) on a "public" level NW is syaing it is telling "travel managers" to use discretion, BUT c) in private it is probably hammering home to its drivers RULES IS RULES and no concessions and probably using the same CCTV footage to beat the drivers with.
I totally agree that the 0930 pass rule is daft, but to be fair to the driver, had he have used his common sense and let the lad on at 0927 he would have been spoken to and dealt with in accordance with company policy over allowing someone too early, so in one one way he was buggered what ever he did

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hillbilly 73 says...
11:41am Fri 13 Jul 12

I have seen this happen with my own eyes the bus turned up early for once but when, these two OAP's got on he said sorry but carnt use pass till 0930 it is total out of order and the passes should be Abel to be use at all time's

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silverlady54 says...
11:57am Fri 13 Jul 12

Where is the driver's common sense and humanity towards an obviously vulnerable person?

I think possibly passes could be used after the school rush is over - 8.45/9am ish? There do have to be restrictions, but someone has to look at common usage and sense too!

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ffsgetalife says...
1:43pm Fri 13 Jul 12

it is not as if the buses are bus at that time in the morning and if most drivers let him on, it sounds like the driver in question is either a jobsworth, an idiot or has no compassion towards disabled people. Oliver should be commended for wanting to go to work, and not for sitting back and just taking benefits!

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S023 says...
5:08pm Fri 13 Jul 12

Very emotive story, and no doubt upsetting for the young fella.

But....I would have thought is was clear by now that he can't get the early bus? Don't blame the driver, if he lets one pass holder on, they would all be trying to get on.

The concessionary fare pass scheme was dumped on local authorities by Gordon Brown, and costs a huge amount of money. Tory Dave might just be desperate/daft enough to change the scheme.

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ffsgetalife says...
5:12pm Fri 13 Jul 12

S023 says...
5:08pm Fri 13 Jul 12

Very emotive story, and no doubt upsetting for the young fella.

But....I would have thought is was clear by now that he can't get the early bus? Don't blame the driver, if he lets one pass holder on, they would all be trying to get on

so how do you explain the fact that the lad was allowed to get on the bus all the other times? It says in the article that he travelled 3 times a week?? Smacks of discrimination to me

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old-codger says...
6:09pm Fri 13 Jul 12

Catch 22, Beggered if you do, Beggered if you dont, The rules need looking at, Not the driver.

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notatcreamfields says...
7:17pm Fri 13 Jul 12

I really do understand why some people are angry about this but rules are there for a reason and as soon as they are bent for whatever the reason they become pointless. People in this article are making out this man was banned from the bus which isn't true, if he or any other holder of a free pass that state's NOT TO BE USED BEFORE 9.30 and wishe's to travel before that time to get to work or whatever they need to do they're more than welcome to they've just gotta pay the full fare like everyone else. I often use the bus on that route and further up it's £1.60 so the fare will be this or less. Like i said earlier rules are rules for everyone not just certain people.

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notatcreamfields says...
9:04pm Fri 13 Jul 12

Plus the ticket machines won't print out a free ticket before 9.30 cause the passes have a chip or something in them that needs to be placed on top of the machine to ensures nobody use's a free pass outside the times that THE GOVERNMENT have set so it's not WBTs fault so whoever is slagging them off needs to redirect their attention to the Government. The reasons as some people have stated is because it's the time everyone nationwide goes to work and in the bigger cities the transport network is rammed as it is without placing more pressure on them by allowing free pass users to use them and in those big cities pass users can pay the fare if they need to travel before 9.30 whether they want to travel at 9.10 or 9.27 doesn't make a difference if it's against Government set rules it's against Government set rules so don't apply your anger towards WBT when they can't do anything about it. A bit of advice is find out who the MP Transport Secretary is and get in contact with them cause who can change Labours 9.30 rule NOT WBT.

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tommichio says...
9:14pm Fri 13 Jul 12

Everyone sticking up for the driver, it clearly says he can "exercise discretion".

Surely letting an individual who quite clearly has special needs onto a bus 3 minutes early isn't going to effect the bus service or the safety of other passengers and is fully justifiable. The driver will know he can use discretion and is obviously choosing not to.

Network transport should be encouraging young adults with disabillities, not embarrassing them by throwing them off the bus.

"Rules are there for a reason" why is this particular rule so important? I could understand maybe pre 9 o'clock due to school/work volume but 9.30?

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tommichio says...
9:16pm Fri 13 Jul 12

who travels to work at 9.20? seriously?

it clearly says the driver can show discretion so all this ticket nonsense is redundant.

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notatcreamfields says...
9:38pm Fri 13 Jul 12

Because it's a nationwide rule and the ticket machine won't let the driver use a free pass before 9.30 and there's nothing stopping somebody who want's to travel before 9.30 to pay the fare. Like i said the issue isn't with WBT it's to do with the old Labour Government who made the legislation and the new Coalition who can change the legislation so no the driver could not physically let people on before 9.30 or risk having a mark on their record. The fare is less than £2 to travel before 9.30 so the driver should have said he can't use the pass but he's more than welcome to pay the fare. If he didn't say that to him he wasn't doing his job properly, if he did advise the passenger on that he was doing his job. Again it's not the driver or WBT who govern this they do what central Government tell them to and if people have got problems with this they need to contact central Government!

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phil wa1 says...
10:31pm Fri 13 Jul 12

tommichio wrote:
who travels to work at 9.20? seriously? it clearly says the driver can show discretion so all this ticket nonsense is redundant.
Erm maybe people who start work at half past? Or at 10 but need to do a couple of things first. I travel to work at this time everyday! Most people who work in the town are shift workersbnot 9-5, Mon - Fri office workers!

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notatcreamfields says...
10:50pm Fri 13 Jul 12

Totally agree with you, everyone is jumping on the drivers and WBTs back when they don't make the rules and the driver physically can't issue a ticket till 9.30 meaning if the bus was in a crash the free pass holder he let on at 9.27 is an illegal passenger and not covered by WBTs insurance. Makes me laugh some people on here who think Warrington should have it's own legislation just because on some days during rush hour the buses ain't rammed. Still don't get what the fuss over paying under £2 to get somewhere if you want to travel before 9.30 when the pass is only valid AFTER that time. It's irrelivant the party involved has down syndrome cause he still wouldn't be insured if he did not have downs syndrome and was traveling illegally and the bus had a crash. Wake up people can't believe the Guardian even printed this story when nobody has done anything wrong unless you want to blame Tony Blair or Gordon Brown you should be addressing this to them not WBT and the Warrington Guardian, just pay the bleedin fare if you wanna travel before 9.30

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ffsgetalife says...
11:30pm Fri 13 Jul 12

notatcreamfields says...
9:04pm Fri 13 Jul 12

Plus the ticket machines won't print out a free ticket before 9.30 cause the passes have a chip or something in them that needs to be placed on top of the machine to ensures nobody use's a free pass outside the times that THE GOVERNMENT have set so it's not WBTs fault so whoever is slagging them off needs to redirect their attention to the Government. The reasons as some people have stated is because it's the time everyone nationwide goes to work and in the bigger cities the transport network is rammed as it is without placing more pressure on them by allowing free pass users to use them and in those big cities pass users can pay the fare if they need to travel before 9.30 whether they want to travel at 9.10 or 9.27 doesn't make a difference if it's against Government set rules it's against Government set rules so don't apply your anger towards WBT when they can't do anything about it. A bit of advice is find out who the MP Transport Secretary is and get in contact with them cause who can change Labours 9.30 rule NOT WBT.

sorry mate you are talking rubbish. I know for a fact that machines DO ISSUE the tickets as I know the young man is in receipt of them!! It just goes back to the driver choosing not to let the lad on...others do AND ISSUE TICKETS TOO so why not him?? Maybe YOU are the driver??

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ffsgetalife says...
11:33pm Fri 13 Jul 12

forgot to say I also travel on this bus and have seen the lad get tickets!

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notatcreamfields says...
12:52am Sat 14 Jul 12

Well done Warrington guardian delete comments if you don't agree the rules simple ANYTIME before 9.30 pay bus fare ANYTIME after 9.30 use the pass. Simple enough for anyone to understand if you have a problem with this write to the transport secretary as it's them who deals with legislation NOT THE BUS DRIVER, NOT WBT, NOT WARRINGTON GUARDIAN, NOT WARRINGTON BOROUGH COUNCIL BUT THE ONE AND ONLY COALITION CENTRAL GOVERNMENT. If the passenger want's to travel in future where the bus maybe there slightly before 9.30 pay until the next stop to guarantee you're insured and not an illegal passenger and then when it's 9 o'clock swipe your free pass to get a ticket. This goes way beyond drivers or WBT being heartless and nasty, for 1 which is the most important all passengers need to be ticketed which holders of 9.30 passes can't be
before 9.30 they're classed as uninsured passengers. I think the minimum fare is £1 which if it's close to 9.30 should get them to a stop where they can physically swipe their card get their free ticket and be insured or if they don't want the hassle pay the less than £2 fare to town do people really have to make out it's more difficult than that?

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notatcreamfields says...
1:17am Sat 14 Jul 12

Ps i think the poster who's wrote they've physically seen a WBT ticket machine issue a ticket to somebody who's T&C states not to be used before 9.30am must be on acid or something cause they can't, there's many other tickets that people buy like monthly tickets that can be swiped where you can board anytime maybe it was one of these you saw. If you ask any bus driver if it's physically possible for a card to successfully swipe and issue ticket before 9.30 they'll put you straight and tell you no it's not possible. So either pay the fare to the next stop if it's nearly 9.30, pay the full fare to town or wait for the next bus. There's 3 options there so the driver didn't deny him access to the bus he denied him access because of an invalid ticket meaning no insurance should something happen. He should've i don't know if he did or not before he asked the passenger to get off offered to charge him full fare or to the next stop then allow him to swipe if it was then 9.30 don't get why everyone is so shocked and blaming everyone apart from the people who control it which is central Government!

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notatcreamfields says...
1:26am Sat 14 Jul 12

Oh before i go you will have seen him getting tickets using his pass after 9.30 because the ticket machine is programmed that way so new drivers know that the pass is invalid till 9.30 so they can advise the passenger they can either pay for their fare or wait for the next bus where if it's close to 9.30 the pass will be valid hence the passenger insured. There'd be an uproar if this man had been allowed uninsured on to the bus then seriously injured in a crash leaving him with injuries where he'd have to have 24 hour care but no help from insurance money because he wasn't insured! Dunno about you but i'd rather read about someone not being allowed to use their pass before 9.30 than an uninsured passenger illegally travelling on the bus being seriously injured without getting a penny from the insurance? Use your heads instead of complaining the Sky is blue or rain is wet.......

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Sameoldsameold says...
6:59am Sat 14 Jul 12

Ding Ding, next stop please

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ffsgetalife says...
9:11am Sat 14 Jul 12

notatcreamfields says...
1:17am Sat 14 Jul 12

Ps i think the poster who's wrote they've physically seen a WBT ticket machine issue a ticket to somebody who's T&C states not to be used before 9.30am must be on acid or something cause they can't, there's many other tickets that people buy like monthly tickets that can be swiped where you can board anytime maybe it was one of these you saw. If you ask any bus driver if it's physically possible for a card to successfully swipe and issue ticket before 9.30 they'll put you straight and tell you no it's not possible. So either pay the fare to the next stop if it's nearly 9.30, pay the full fare to town or wait for the next bus. There's 3 options there so the driver didn't deny him access to the bus he denied him access because of an invalid ticket meaning no insurance should something happen. He should've i don't know if he did or not before he asked the passenger to get off offered to charge him full fare or to the next stop then allow him to swipe if it was then 9.30 don't get why everyone is so shocked and blaming everyone apart from the people who control it which is central Government!

read your posts it is obviously you on acid as your posts are totally contradictory and show what a complete fool you appear to be. You question if I have seen the lad buying tickets - I have seen him with the tickets and as the article so well states, he has been using the transport for ages without problems. If you read and comprehend the quotes from the bus company, it clearly states that drivers should exercise discretion.


Following the incident in June, Mark Harrison, operations co-ordinator, sent a written apology to Mrs Thomason.


It read: ‘I was dismayed that our driver had failed to pick your son up. I have arranged for CCTV footage to be recovered, the driver has been spoken to and dealt with in accordance with company policy.’ But the Green Lane School teaching assistant says it is the third time Oliver has been barred from the bus in 18 months. Each time an apology was given. Now she wants assurances he will be allowed to travel.

David Squire, managing director of Network Warrington, said that time restrictions were set by Warrington Borough Council.

He added that travel managers have been told to ‘exercise discretion’.

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tommichio says...
9:17am Sat 14 Jul 12

notatcreamfields wrote:
Oh before i go you will have seen him getting tickets using his pass after 9.30 because the ticket machine is programmed that way so new drivers know that the pass is invalid till 9.30 so they can advise the passenger they can either pay for their fare or wait for the next bus where if it's close to 9.30 the pass will be valid hence the passenger insured. There'd be an uproar if this man had been allowed uninsured on to the bus then seriously injured in a crash leaving him with injuries where he'd have to have 24 hour care but no help from insurance money because he wasn't insured! Dunno about you but i'd rather read about someone not being allowed to use their pass before 9.30 than an uninsured passenger illegally travelling on the bus being seriously injured without getting a penny from the insurance? Use your heads instead of complaining the Sky is blue or rain is wet.......
If this insurance thing is the case, why is the head of warrington network transport clearly saying he is disappointed with the way the driver handled it, and wants him to exercise discretion? Surely he will be telling all his drivers to do something illegal if what you say is true?

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ffsgetalife says...
9:44am Sat 14 Jul 12

very well put Tommichio....

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biginthesticks says...
12:57pm Sat 14 Jul 12

So bus drivers cannot issue a ticket without first reading the pass on the machine? that is utter rubbish.

I don't blame the driver though, I blame bosses at Network Warrington and
Warrington Borough Council

A couple of months ago I over paid for bus tickets I then sent evidence and a complaint letter and im still waiting for a letter of apology and my money refunded, Im not holding my breath!!

WBT should respond to all letters of complaint and WBC should take all its workers sat in empty houses for weeks having brews and butties doing nothing and send them all home.

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The Maestro says...
12:59pm Sat 14 Jul 12

It's far easier for the MD to pass the buck on to the driver. The rule is 0930 not 0927 the ticket machine will record the use of the pass too early and the driver will be pulled up for this. If the male is working why does he get a free bus pass surely this counts as discrimination? If he is too vulnerable to be left at a bus stop why is he allowed out on his own to wait for the bus in the first place? The simple fact is he tried to use pass early and couldn't so a complaint was made because the rules were not bent for him. The driver was right and he should have been supported by his management not made to take the blame

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ffsgetalife says...
1:02pm Sat 14 Jul 12

he is working as a volunteer I believe and has a disabled pass as he IS DISABLED! It is not the fact he was left at a bus stop, it is the discrimination of a couple of drivers against the majority of them who do exercise common sense....as instructed to by their employers

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The Maestro says...
1:25pm Sat 14 Jul 12

Bus drivers are pulled up for allowing the use of a pass too early and it is monitored by the machinery in their cab. It's not discrimination its obeying the rules put in place for everybody to obey. The reason may have used his free pass beforehand is down to getting a later bus.

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ffsgetalife says...
3:37pm Sat 14 Jul 12

but the managers clearly state that he is to be let on the bus as the drivers are told to use their discretion?? Doesn't make any sense to me Maestro to be honest

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tommichio says...
5:27pm Sat 14 Jul 12

why people are saying the drivers are gonna get in trouble is beyond me. the head of network transport has said they can use discretion and this would be ok to let a disabled user on less than 3 mins early. why would the driver get reprimanded?

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tommichio says...
5:32pm Sat 14 Jul 12

The Maestro wrote:
It's far easier for the MD to pass the buck on to the driver. The rule is 0930 not 0927 the ticket machine will record the use of the pass too early and the driver will be pulled up for this. If the male is working why does he get a free bus pass surely this counts as discrimination? If he is too vulnerable to be left at a bus stop why is he allowed out on his own to wait for the bus in the first place? The simple fact is he tried to use pass early and couldn't so a complaint was made because the rules were not bent for him. The driver was right and he should have been supported by his management not made to take the blame
I don't even know where to begin. You should just leave this page before you embarrass yourself further.

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wolfie the wire says...
7:06pm Sat 14 Jul 12

Right lets clear a few things up here. I am a Network Warrington driver and it IS possible to issue a conccessionary free ticket before 9.30am as the wayfarer machine has an override button which we used to use before the passes were scanned automatically. I can honestly say we as can use our discretion as its just simple common sense that a vulnerable passenger should not be left at a bus stop at any time of day no matter what. However, if this young man regularly uses this service before 9.30 then really he or his parents or carer need to understand that it IS wrong to expect the driver or the bus company to constantly bend the rules. This bus service runs every 15 mins (when running to time) and he really needs to amend his travel times. Also as a matter of course, conccessionary pass holders pay half fare before 9.30 not full! I do feel sorry for this young man but this really is a non story as what is being asked is that Network Warrington regularly bend the rules for one person, which others would then demand the same treatment which unfortunately for this young man cannot be allowed to happen.

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MikeJT says...
9:55am Sun 15 Jul 12

tommichio wrote:
why people are saying the drivers are gonna get in trouble is beyond me. the head of network transport has said they can use discretion and this would be ok to let a disabled user on less than 3 mins early. why would the driver get reprimanded?
Because to put it simply...what the bosses say in public is often different than the rules they enforce in private.

The original story states that the individual has been refuse 3 times in say 200 journeys . What the story does not question is are there any circumstances regarding this. Does it co-incide with a WBT clamp down on passes. Were they occassions when a bus was running late/early etc. I have witnessed (all be it a long time ago) a situation when a pass holder was "refused" use on a bus AFTER 9.30 because the bus was late and should have been the 9.25. Admittedly a very well educated member of the public put the driver right on the T&C but his response was "i was only doing what my bosses have told me to do"

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The Maestro says...
10:41am Sun 15 Jul 12

tommichio wrote:
The Maestro wrote:
It's far easier for the MD to pass the buck on to the driver. The rule is 0930 not 0927 the ticket machine will record the use of the pass too early and the driver will be pulled up for this. If the male is working why does he get a free bus pass surely this counts as discrimination? If he is too vulnerable to be left at a bus stop why is he allowed out on his own to wait for the bus in the first place? The simple fact is he tried to use pass early and couldn't so a complaint was made because the rules were not bent for him. The driver was right and he should have been supported by his management not made to take the blame
I don't even know where to begin. You should just leave this page before you embarrass yourself further.
coming from the person who asks who goes to work at 0920, I think I'll comment on here as and when I like thanks.

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mr dave k says...
1:42pm Sun 15 Jul 12

the driver must of been a complete jobs worth !!!

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mr dave k says...
1:49pm Sun 15 Jul 12

can people not see this young man is trying to work in life instead of sitting on his back side feeling sorry for himself in this process he is being hindered by complete fools,

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ffsgetalife says...
5:23pm Sun 15 Jul 12

mr dave k wrote:
can people not see this young man is trying to work in life instead of sitting on his back side feeling sorry for himself in this process he is being hindered by complete fools,
excellent observation Sir!
In my view, there should be more like him - wanting to do a days work rather than sit in front of the TV all day, watching Jeremy Kyle and claiming benefits! Unfortunately it seems to depend on which driver is on the route as to whether he has any problems or not. But then, as I am apparently "on acid" as some fool wrote on here, what do I know! :)

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madbusman says...
12:28pm Mon 16 Jul 12

i am also a bus driver in this town and can say you are dammed if you do or dont this gentleman i know and yes we can use discretion but because we can see this gent has a disability what happens when someone with an unapparent disability gets on at 0925 what is the answer i know the driver and feel sorry for him and all the rest we have just been put in no win sistuation again people always want to have a go at us when most people are happy with there drivers this company does more for its passengers then many more of them do and have the cheapest fares

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richiepooh says...
1:06pm Tue 17 Jul 12

He doesnt look "Dissabled" to me...why has he got a pass in the first place, if he is able to function independantly enough to work as a voulantary worker, is able to find his way ALONE !!! to a bus stop then why has he a pass, simply because of his label. Downs syndrome has many levels of severity. you lot supporting this are the same faces that whinge year after year about people getting benefits, yet all want to be nicey nicey when it comes to individual cases, and thats what this realy is about an individual case because these lines have to be drawn firstly on severity of disability and secondly on cut off times. theres excercising discreation and theres rules. if the dirver is allowed to excercise descreation then thats EXACTLY what he did and just because this guy didnt like the fact he was given a pass to use from 9.30am onwards (which Ims sure there is a lot more deserved people who dont have one...ie people who cant walk 10 feet without pain such as ME !) and he feels that dispite the clearly defined times the concession given to him that allows him to travel free after 9.30 should have an added concession because he has downs...well no, the 9.30 onward pass is because he has downs full stop.

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Rex Mundi says...
3:54pm Tue 17 Jul 12

So - he's regularly breaking the conditions of the free pass. If the bus isn't bang on time he gets away with it but sometimes the bus is on time and the ticket machine says no. His mum complains, the MD of WBT seems to offer a conciliatory way out (asks his drivers on that route to show a bit more discretion) - and mum then goes to the press, makes a story of a non-story, and next thing every pensioner at every stop will be demanding a bit more discretion. The twirlies will have a field day!

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ffsgetalife says...
4:09pm Tue 17 Jul 12

richiepooh wrote:
He doesnt look "Dissabled" to me...why has he got a pass in the first place, if he is able to function independantly enough to work as a voulantary worker, is able to find his way ALONE !!! to a bus stop then why has he a pass, simply because of his label. Downs syndrome has many levels of severity. you lot supporting this are the same faces that whinge year after year about people getting benefits, yet all want to be nicey nicey when it comes to individual cases, and thats what this realy is about an individual case because these lines have to be drawn firstly on severity of disability and secondly on cut off times. theres excercising discreation and theres rules. if the dirver is allowed to excercise descreation then thats EXACTLY what he did and just because this guy didnt like the fact he was given a pass to use from 9.30am onwards (which Ims sure there is a lot more deserved people who dont have one...ie people who cant walk 10 feet without pain such as ME !) and he feels that dispite the clearly defined times the concession given to him that allows him to travel free after 9.30 should have an added concession because he has downs...well no, the 9.30 onward pass is because he has downs full stop.
there are an awful lot of assumptions in your comments. Do you actually know the person? How do you know what disabilities he has? Downs Syndrome is the obvious one I agree, we can all see he has that but do we know what other conditions he has?

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notatcreamfields says...
4:33pm Tue 17 Jul 12

He's not happy the way the driver dealt with it cause maybe he didn't give him the option of paying the fare of paying to the next stop when it was 9.30. Government put the 9.30 usage limits on it for a reason, maybe Warrington buses are not as busy as say London or Manchester but never the less this is a nationwide rule and a condition of travel. If anybody has a problem with it they need to contact central Government are you people really thick enough to think that WBT can change NATIONAL law? The insurance reason is correct too cause i contacted WBT myself cause i was 99% sure that if you travel on a pass that allows you travel before 9.30 and the driver lets you on cause like i say it's impossible for a ticket to be printed (again i was 99% sure about that too so also asked WBT when i rang them up) this safe guard is put on the machines to prevent 9.30 pass holder to get on the bus because they'd be uninsured should the bus be involved in an accident exactly the same as why a private hire vehicle cannot pick people up who flag him down cause the insurance would be invalid. All the information and my hole point on writing has been confirmed by the bus company not just on the say of the Warrington Guardian. If you disagree with what I've put feel free to contact WBT yourself and don't worry i don't expect an apology just because you've made yourself look silly. I've never said i agree with the inflexability but i have said the rules are there for a reason, so instead of replying with unchecked information find out for yourself and if you still disagree write to the Transport Secretary who deals with the nationwide bus passes.

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notatcreamfields says...
4:38pm Tue 17 Jul 12

tommichio wrote:
why people are saying the drivers are gonna get in trouble is beyond me. the head of network transport has said they can use discretion and this would be ok to let a disabled user on less than 3 mins early. why would the driver get reprimanded?
The CEOs of banks say that they'll lend people money when the tax payer bailed them out but told people at the bottom not to lend to anyone without perfect credit scoring and collateral. Surely you're not nieve enough to believe what the person at the top say's is what the driver's managers say and their bosses do you? If you do believe what he's said you've got a massive wake up call to come if you go through life like that.

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notatcreamfields says...
4:49pm Tue 17 Jul 12

Exactly my point although your office's did say it was impossible to issue a ticket before 9.30 they prob meant it would not automatically print one like someone further up said he's seen. The point is it's central Government not WBT that have made these rules and if i'm correct if a passenger was being constantly let on the bus route 3 time's a week every week i suspect that the bosses would be questioning this. I was unaware that pass holders only had to pay half fare which is very reasonable indeed. If this young man needs to travel at this time 3 times a week £1 from his £118 ESA benefit and up to another £160 DLA depending on how serious downs syndrome effects him is nothing. He live's at home with his mum so has no bills to pay, not have to worry if the electric meter has credit on it food in the cupboard etc really makes this story sound as ridiculous as it is! Even if he paid everyday £3 per week is hardly anything when you've got no out goings at all. Thanks for clearing up the issue with ticket machines by telling everyone it's isn't printed automatically like it is after 9.30

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ffsgetalife says...
4:57pm Tue 17 Jul 12

notatcreamfields you assume so much - unless you know this man and his status, you have NO IDEA what he pays out to whom, what else he does with his life, what his benefits are et al. We only know what is written - do you think it is fair to make up the rest? As pointed out by others, at least he gets off his arse and does something which is more than others do!

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notatcreamfields says...
6:19pm Tue 17 Jul 12

I know how much Employment and Support Allowance cause it's the same for everyone with this lads condition as for DLA i said "up to" cause that varies depending on how much care they need or how much care they say they need. I suggest you read my comment properly before making yourself look like a tool. This story should not be in the paper the lad and his mother knows he can't travel for free before 9.30 yet as she say's continuely try to instead of waiting 15 minutes to the next bus or pay 80p-£1 to get the bus before 9.30 be it 9.10 or 9.29 they're both before 9.30

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ffsgetalife says...
6:24pm Tue 17 Jul 12

notatcreamfields wrote:
I know how much Employment and Support Allowance cause it's the same for everyone with this lads condition as for DLA i said "up to" cause that varies depending on how much care they need or how much care they say they need. I suggest you read my comment properly before making yourself look like a tool. This story should not be in the paper the lad and his mother knows he can't travel for free before 9.30 yet as she say's continuely try to instead of waiting 15 minutes to the next bus or pay 80p-£1 to get the bus before 9.30 be it 9.10 or 9.29 they're both before 9.30
I said WHAT HE PAYS OUT not what he receives!

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The Maestro says...
8:12pm Tue 17 Jul 12

ffsgetalife wrote:
notatcreamfields wrote:
I know how much Employment and Support Allowance cause it's the same for everyone with this lads condition as for DLA i said "up to" cause that varies depending on how much care they need or how much care they say they need. I suggest you read my comment properly before making yourself look like a tool. This story should not be in the paper the lad and his mother knows he can't travel for free before 9.30 yet as she say's continuely try to instead of waiting 15 minutes to the next bus or pay 80p-£1 to get the bus before 9.30 be it 9.10 or 9.29 they're both before 9.30
I said WHAT HE PAYS OUT not what he receives!
EVERYONE in this free and EQUAL society of ours has outgoings, it is down to the individual to make sure they can properly budget what they need to spend, if you want a free ride stick to the rules and don’t moan if the rules are not bent for you. Why is a disabled person entitled to a bus pass anyway? Surely the equalities act is being breached in some way by allowing free travel due to a disability?

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notatcreamfields says...
8:33pm Tue 17 Jul 12

Totally my point at least there's someone with a bit of common sense, everyone has got outgoings and i'd be made up to get to work for 80p and i certainly wouldn't be writing into newspapers because the rule's are not continually bent for this lad. He and his mother know this bus pass is not valid before half 9 so why do they continually try to use it before that time? If he needs to be in work early and get a bus before half 9 80p is nothing even if he just gets ESA and no DLA. It seems like his Mother plays the victim with his condition so i wouldn't be suprised if she's getting maximum DLA along with carers allowance all so. What normal person would write into a newspaper complaining about having to spend 80 pence to get to work instead of nothing? I really am suprised the Guardian thought this was a story in the first place and i don't think they thought it would open this can of worms. Whether he pays his mum £50-£100 per week keep (which i very much doubt she probably "take's care" of all his state benefits) 80p to get to work is nothing and if it's such a burden wait for 15 minutes for the next bus that's due after 9.30 feel sorry for this lad cause his mum is beyond belief! WBT DON'T MAKE UP THE BUS PASS REGULATIONS IF YOU'VE GOT SUCH AN ISSUE WRITE TO THE TRANSPORT SECRETARY WHO MORE THAN LIKELY WILL SAY WITH ALL THE CUT BACKS EVERYONE IS HAVING TO ENDURE YOU SHOULD BE GRATEFULL TO HAVE FREE TRAVEL AFTER 9.30 AT ALL. Writing in to the Warrington Guardian just because you don't like the reply from WBT is pretty sad to be honest and i hope the Government make the passes half price at anytime like they used to be cause everyone else is having to endure the mess caused by Gordon Brown and co and then let's see what ridiculous story you want the Guardian to print then!

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notatcreamfields says...
8:34pm Tue 17 Jul 12

Totally my point at least there's someone with a bit of common sense, everyone has got outgoings and i'd be made up to get to work for 80p and i certainly wouldn't be writing into newspapers because the rule's are not continually bent for this lad. He and his mother know this bus pass is not valid before half 9 so why do they continually try to use it before that time? If he needs to be in work early and get a bus before half 9 80p is nothing even if he just gets ESA and no DLA. It seems like his Mother plays the victim with his condition so i wouldn't be suprised if she's getting maximum DLA along with carers allowance all so. What normal person would write into a newspaper complaining about having to spend 80 pence to get to work instead of nothing? I really am suprised the Guardian thought this was a story in the first place and i don't think they thought it would open this can of worms. Whether he pays his mum £50-£100 per week keep (which i very much doubt she probably "take's care" of all his state benefits) 80p to get to work is nothing and if it's such a burden wait for 15 minutes for the next bus that's due after 9.30 feel sorry for this lad cause his mum is beyond belief! WBT DON'T MAKE UP THE BUS PASS REGULATIONS IF YOU'VE GOT SUCH AN ISSUE WRITE TO THE TRANSPORT SECRETARY WHO MORE THAN LIKELY WILL SAY WITH ALL THE CUT BACKS EVERYONE IS HAVING TO ENDURE YOU SHOULD BE GRATEFULL TO HAVE FREE TRAVEL AFTER 9.30 AT ALL. Writing in to the Warrington Guardian just because you don't like the reply from WBT is pretty sad to be honest and i hope the Government make the passes half price at anytime like they used to be cause everyone else is having to endure the mess caused by Gordon Brown and co and then let's see what ridiculous story you want the Guardian to print then!

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the equaliser says...
6:08pm Wed 18 Jul 12

have to agree fully with notatcreamfields. This whole thing boils down to one simple thing - the dus driver is expected to use 'discretion' and in this case HAS done just that. I imagine he took the view that the passenger was on a regular bus route with frequent buses and another would be along in 15 minutes which would allow him free travel on his pass so there is no justification in in allowing the passenger on for free before 9.30am as this would be an unnecessary abuse (albeit minor) of the system. If the passenger was really vulnerable and so disabled that he could not safely wait a few minutes at the bus stop for the next bus then he would not be travelling alone in the first place. Truth of it is he has had his disability taken into account already and and that is why he had the pass which allowed him free travel subject to time restrictions.
I actually applaud the bus driver for seeing the bigger picture here and trying to apply the system correctly. Too many people flout the rules and laws in this country and its about time people recognised that it is NOBODYS right to expect the rules to be waived. Yes its sometimes nice to show a bit of compassion (like it was snowing or thundering for instance) but it should not be an expectation and the person enforcing the rules should certainly not be deemed as wong when the rules are applied to the letter.

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choperado says...
11:06pm Wed 18 Jul 12

Equalizer and notatcreamfields (cos its expensive and quite monotonous, I mean creamfields) you can not be any more plain/simplified with your point which is absolutely spot on. He is possibly also getting Carers Allowance at approx 55quid pw. The DLA mobility is paid for him to get about so he has no gripe about paying a bus and can even get a cab. Could he not also utilise Dial a Ride?

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