Passengers hit out over Network Warrington price hike - full breakdown

Price rises are on the way at Network Warrington

Price rises are on the way at Network Warrington

First published in News
Last updated

BUS passengers in Warrington will be forced to dig deep after Network Warrington announced a massive fare hike from Sunday.

The news has been met with outrage by many commuters after it was revealed that bus tickets will jump in price - with a monthly town pass for students seeing the highest increase of almost 65 per cent.

Under the new price shake-up, there will no longer be a separate town and network ticket but instead there will be one Touch and Go! ticket which will allow travel across all bus services.

Service users, who previously bought an adult monthly town pass, will see the price rise from £56 to £84 - a 50 per cent increase.

A monthly adult network pass will increase from £72 to £84 - an growth of almost 17 per cent.

While an annual network pass will remain the same for adults and students, those who previously bought a town annual pass will see prices increase by up to 40 per cent.

Lindsay Frangleton, of Manchester Road, said she was shocked to discover the prices had increased and argued the company is ‘motivated by greed’.

The 54-year-old said: “Why should I pay for something I will never use?

“I don’t need a network pass but now I will have to pay for one.

“It is a way of the bus company making a quick buck.”

A spokesman for Network Warrington said the price increase was ‘necessary’ for the future of the company.

"Over the past 12 months our costs have risen, due to a combination of factors including Government funding cuts and significant cost increases in fuel and maintenance.

“The decision to increase fares has not been taken lightly, but is necessary to keep the company sustainable.

“The board also made the decision to combine the town and network fare zones to simplify the range of tickets offered.”

Other changes included a price increase to day rover fares, special tickets including Breezer and Westy Way and on-bus fares.

Many residents have reacted angrily to the changes to the fares with some unsure how they will be able to fund the increase as they struggle to cope with their already tight budgets.

Mark Howard, from Chapelford, described the changes as ‘disappointing’ The 32-year-old said: “I have tried to stay positive and have worked around all the recent service changes, but I feel this is too much now.”

Company secretary of Travel Watch North West John Moorhouse added: “It does seem really excessive when you compare it with the general rate of inflation at a time when we should be encouraging more people travel by bus.”

David Sidebottom, Passenger Focus director, said: “Warrington’s hard-pressed passengers, especially those who rely on the bus for work or education, will be bitterly disappointed by these inflation-busting fare rises.

“When we last surveyed bus passengers in Warrington fewer than two thirds of fare payers were satisfied with the value for money of services. These fares rises, many of them double digit, will not help to improve this.”   

Comments (77)

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9:14am Wed 13 Aug 14

grey_man says...

The average cost of fuel has been falling for three years. So the 'spokesman' (funny how they keep their names away from bad news) - is quite simply lying when he says they have increased. I've no idea about maintenance costs but I doubt they're significantly higher.

Be good to see what the council has to say about this given that they want less traffic on the roads even though they're closing local facilities, approving out of town shops, and making it harder for local shops to trade, so obliging people to travel more. I know they keep talking about improving the town's transport infrastructure but they spend more time on press releases and bleating than actually doing anything about it.
The average cost of fuel has been falling for three years. So the 'spokesman' (funny how they keep their names away from bad news) - is quite simply lying when he says they have increased. I've no idea about maintenance costs but I doubt they're significantly higher. Be good to see what the council has to say about this given that they want less traffic on the roads even though they're closing local facilities, approving out of town shops, and making it harder for local shops to trade, so obliging people to travel more. I know they keep talking about improving the town's transport infrastructure but they spend more time on press releases and bleating than actually doing anything about it. grey_man
  • Score: 37

9:17am Wed 13 Aug 14

AppleJunkie says...

With these fare increases with 2 or more people in a group it will be cheaper to get a taxi, with that you can at least get a door to door service.
With these fare increases with 2 or more people in a group it will be cheaper to get a taxi, with that you can at least get a door to door service. AppleJunkie
  • Score: 64

9:50am Wed 13 Aug 14

choggy says...

We must have the dearest fares in europe.
We must have the dearest fares in europe. choggy
  • Score: 29

10:12am Wed 13 Aug 14

chunkymunky says...

why don't people set up a car sharing scheme in Warrington? many other towns and cities have them locally as do many other countries (in some countries its illegal to drive more than 3 miles with an empty passenger seat!!!)

there are some national schemes that run on IOS and android apps?!?!?
why don't people set up a car sharing scheme in Warrington? many other towns and cities have them locally as do many other countries (in some countries its illegal to drive more than 3 miles with an empty passenger seat!!!) there are some national schemes that run on IOS and android apps?!?!? chunkymunky
  • Score: 7

10:45am Wed 13 Aug 14

happytee39 says...

Again!! Doesn't seem like 5 minutes since the last one..give up on buses..I'l stick to the train..its cheaper!!!
Again!! Doesn't seem like 5 minutes since the last one..give up on buses..I'l stick to the train..its cheaper!!! happytee39
  • Score: 15

10:49am Wed 13 Aug 14

Out of Warrington says...

grey_man wrote:
The average cost of fuel has been falling for three years. So the 'spokesman' (funny how they keep their names away from bad news) - is quite simply lying when he says they have increased. I've no idea about maintenance costs but I doubt they're significantly higher.

Be good to see what the council has to say about this given that they want less traffic on the roads even though they're closing local facilities, approving out of town shops, and making it harder for local shops to trade, so obliging people to travel more. I know they keep talking about improving the town's transport infrastructure but they spend more time on press releases and bleating than actually doing anything about it.
The bus company is owned by the council and operates as a 'arms length' operation. This means that the bus company cannot operate at a loss i.e. isn't making money, so I guess this is why the fares have gone up.

Conversely, the company cannot make a profit, but can use any surplus to reinvest in new buses, infrastructure etc.

A lot of the shortfall in revenue is exacerbated by the use of the older persons/disabled bus pass.
[quote][p][bold]grey_man[/bold] wrote: The average cost of fuel has been falling for three years. So the 'spokesman' (funny how they keep their names away from bad news) - is quite simply lying when he says they have increased. I've no idea about maintenance costs but I doubt they're significantly higher. Be good to see what the council has to say about this given that they want less traffic on the roads even though they're closing local facilities, approving out of town shops, and making it harder for local shops to trade, so obliging people to travel more. I know they keep talking about improving the town's transport infrastructure but they spend more time on press releases and bleating than actually doing anything about it.[/p][/quote]The bus company is owned by the council and operates as a 'arms length' operation. This means that the bus company cannot operate at a loss i.e. isn't making money, so I guess this is why the fares have gone up. Conversely, the company cannot make a profit, but can use any surplus to reinvest in new buses, infrastructure etc. A lot of the shortfall in revenue is exacerbated by the use of the older persons/disabled bus pass. Out of Warrington
  • Score: 12

11:49am Wed 13 Aug 14

Kellystad says...

We, the paying customers, are now paying for the effects of the strike that the bus drivers undertook last year. Major cuts to the bus services provided by slashing routes and times and now a hike in the cost of travel.
Hope it was worth it because a lot of us no longer use the buses as a result of the recent changes to the service and this price hike certainly adds to this.
We, the paying customers, are now paying for the effects of the strike that the bus drivers undertook last year. Major cuts to the bus services provided by slashing routes and times and now a hike in the cost of travel. Hope it was worth it because a lot of us no longer use the buses as a result of the recent changes to the service and this price hike certainly adds to this. Kellystad
  • Score: 24

12:02pm Wed 13 Aug 14

grey_man says...

Out of Warrington wrote:
grey_man wrote:
The average cost of fuel has been falling for three years. So the 'spokesman' (funny how they keep their names away from bad news) - is quite simply lying when he says they have increased. I've no idea about maintenance costs but I doubt they're significantly higher.

Be good to see what the council has to say about this given that they want less traffic on the roads even though they're closing local facilities, approving out of town shops, and making it harder for local shops to trade, so obliging people to travel more. I know they keep talking about improving the town's transport infrastructure but they spend more time on press releases and bleating than actually doing anything about it.
The bus company is owned by the council and operates as a 'arms length' operation. This means that the bus company cannot operate at a loss i.e. isn't making money, so I guess this is why the fares have gone up.

Conversely, the company cannot make a profit, but can use any surplus to reinvest in new buses, infrastructure etc.

A lot of the shortfall in revenue is exacerbated by the use of the older persons/disabled bus pass.
And that is exactly why councils and their staff should be kept at a bit more than arms length, as they should have been with LiveWire. Rather than making buses more attractive to customers when 'surpluses' fall, they make them less attractive. I know you'll disagree but the town is run by morons. Even if many of the frontline staff do a good job, the councillors and officers at their head are cretins with no imagination and, in the case of the cowardly 'spokesman' who doesn't even have the guts to stand by his own words, a liar, making stuff up to justify a bad decision.

The rest of us just have to muddle through the omnishambles. We must never forget this is the council's town and the rest of us just get to live in it.
[quote][p][bold]Out of Warrington[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]grey_man[/bold] wrote: The average cost of fuel has been falling for three years. So the 'spokesman' (funny how they keep their names away from bad news) - is quite simply lying when he says they have increased. I've no idea about maintenance costs but I doubt they're significantly higher. Be good to see what the council has to say about this given that they want less traffic on the roads even though they're closing local facilities, approving out of town shops, and making it harder for local shops to trade, so obliging people to travel more. I know they keep talking about improving the town's transport infrastructure but they spend more time on press releases and bleating than actually doing anything about it.[/p][/quote]The bus company is owned by the council and operates as a 'arms length' operation. This means that the bus company cannot operate at a loss i.e. isn't making money, so I guess this is why the fares have gone up. Conversely, the company cannot make a profit, but can use any surplus to reinvest in new buses, infrastructure etc. A lot of the shortfall in revenue is exacerbated by the use of the older persons/disabled bus pass.[/p][/quote]And that is exactly why councils and their staff should be kept at a bit more than arms length, as they should have been with LiveWire. Rather than making buses more attractive to customers when 'surpluses' fall, they make them less attractive. I know you'll disagree but the town is run by morons. Even if many of the frontline staff do a good job, the councillors and officers at their head are cretins with no imagination and, in the case of the cowardly 'spokesman' who doesn't even have the guts to stand by his own words, a liar, making stuff up to justify a bad decision. The rest of us just have to muddle through the omnishambles. We must never forget this is the council's town and the rest of us just get to live in it. grey_man
  • Score: 16

12:14pm Wed 13 Aug 14

zingers says...

hope they use some of the money sending a few drivers to charm school !!
hope they use some of the money sending a few drivers to charm school !! zingers
  • Score: 27

12:39pm Wed 13 Aug 14

MikeJT says...

£24 for a weekly ticket. I was watching the series about the Yorkshire bus company the other night. £10 for a weekly ticket if I heard right and that covers their far bigger network area.

The disadvantage that Network Warrington have is that as a nation we are becoming more aware of "rip-off". Prediction, 12 month time passenger numbers and turnover will be down.
£24 for a weekly ticket. I was watching the series about the Yorkshire bus company the other night. £10 for a weekly ticket if I heard right and that covers their far bigger network area. The disadvantage that Network Warrington have is that as a nation we are becoming more aware of "rip-off". Prediction, 12 month time passenger numbers and turnover will be down. MikeJT
  • Score: 28

1:04pm Wed 13 Aug 14

grey_man says...

MikeJT wrote:
£24 for a weekly ticket. I was watching the series about the Yorkshire bus company the other night. £10 for a weekly ticket if I heard right and that covers their far bigger network area.

The disadvantage that Network Warrington have is that as a nation we are becoming more aware of "rip-off". Prediction, 12 month time passenger numbers and turnover will be down.
No company with an eye on its long term future reacts to rapidly falling customer numbers with massive price rises. And they certainly wouldn't insult our intelligence by making up fictitious increases in their costs either.
[quote][p][bold]MikeJT[/bold] wrote: £24 for a weekly ticket. I was watching the series about the Yorkshire bus company the other night. £10 for a weekly ticket if I heard right and that covers their far bigger network area. The disadvantage that Network Warrington have is that as a nation we are becoming more aware of "rip-off". Prediction, 12 month time passenger numbers and turnover will be down.[/p][/quote]No company with an eye on its long term future reacts to rapidly falling customer numbers with massive price rises. And they certainly wouldn't insult our intelligence by making up fictitious increases in their costs either. grey_man
  • Score: 25

1:33pm Wed 13 Aug 14

Mr_Vegas says...

grey_man wrote:
MikeJT wrote:
£24 for a weekly ticket. I was watching the series about the Yorkshire bus company the other night. £10 for a weekly ticket if I heard right and that covers their far bigger network area.

The disadvantage that Network Warrington have is that as a nation we are becoming more aware of "rip-off". Prediction, 12 month time passenger numbers and turnover will be down.
No company with an eye on its long term future reacts to rapidly falling customer numbers with massive price rises. And they certainly wouldn't insult our intelligence by making up fictitious increases in their costs either.
In addition to the comment above, no company with an eye on its long term future makes such an announcement with their MD on a 3 week holiday in Florida (Or so the Grapevine says....). Fuel prices have NOT gone up and surely with the reduction in services over the past year fuel costs will have come down. Companies of this size of which fuel is such a major cost can and should control their fuel costs better either by hedging with a fuel hedge company or by doing deals with local fuel suppliers.
A complete pack of lies is being fed to the public in that statement by 'the spokesman' who clearly is not the MD, just a mouthpiece.
The whole thing reacts of a last desperate act of a company to stay afloat and generate short term cash.
The question is: What happens when passengers stop using the service because they simply cannot afford it?
There will not be much cash coming in then.
[quote][p][bold]grey_man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]MikeJT[/bold] wrote: £24 for a weekly ticket. I was watching the series about the Yorkshire bus company the other night. £10 for a weekly ticket if I heard right and that covers their far bigger network area. The disadvantage that Network Warrington have is that as a nation we are becoming more aware of "rip-off". Prediction, 12 month time passenger numbers and turnover will be down.[/p][/quote]No company with an eye on its long term future reacts to rapidly falling customer numbers with massive price rises. And they certainly wouldn't insult our intelligence by making up fictitious increases in their costs either.[/p][/quote]In addition to the comment above, no company with an eye on its long term future makes such an announcement with their MD on a 3 week holiday in Florida (Or so the Grapevine says....). Fuel prices have NOT gone up and surely with the reduction in services over the past year fuel costs will have come down. Companies of this size of which fuel is such a major cost can and should control their fuel costs better either by hedging with a fuel hedge company or by doing deals with local fuel suppliers. A complete pack of lies is being fed to the public in that statement by 'the spokesman' who clearly is not the MD, just a mouthpiece. The whole thing reacts of a last desperate act of a company to stay afloat and generate short term cash. The question is: What happens when passengers stop using the service because they simply cannot afford it? There will not be much cash coming in then. Mr_Vegas
  • Score: 21

1:47pm Wed 13 Aug 14

richiepooh says...

one word GREED
this is now one of the most expensive in the country, even parallel with LONDON where an adult weekpass will cost £20.40 which would work out at £88.40 a month LONDON!!! which I'm sure they would discount if they had a monthly to probably cheaper than Warrington.
York is a mere £44 !!

time for Network warrington to lose its footing and be replaced.
one word GREED this is now one of the most expensive in the country, even parallel with LONDON where an adult weekpass will cost £20.40 which would work out at £88.40 a month LONDON!!! which I'm sure they would discount if they had a monthly to probably cheaper than Warrington. York is a mere £44 !! time for Network warrington to lose its footing and be replaced. richiepooh
  • Score: 17

1:49pm Wed 13 Aug 14

The Coopers4 says...

This rise is a disgusting and a lot of people will not be able to travel to work etc... when wages are not increasing everything seems to be. How are people expected to find the money from to pay the over inflated prices. Its is not fair on the residents of Warrington that the bus company combines 2 passes into 1, to justify the price increase.

I wonder how many more bus companies are going to pop up offering £1 fares into the town centre. Lets hope for the people of Warrington's sake that this happens and soon.
This rise is a disgusting and a lot of people will not be able to travel to work etc... when wages are not increasing everything seems to be. How are people expected to find the money from to pay the over inflated prices. Its is not fair on the residents of Warrington that the bus company combines 2 passes into 1, to justify the price increase. I wonder how many more bus companies are going to pop up offering £1 fares into the town centre. Lets hope for the people of Warrington's sake that this happens and soon. The Coopers4
  • Score: 24

1:56pm Wed 13 Aug 14

nextdoor says...

Wow. When I was a student my bus pass was free. Its now £450 for a bus pass?! Where are the students meant to find that sort of money, especially with EMA being scrapped years ago?!

If network rail did this, there would be public outcry.

Who fancies doing a FOI request to see where the money is being spent?
Wow. When I was a student my bus pass was free. Its now £450 for a bus pass?! Where are the students meant to find that sort of money, especially with EMA being scrapped years ago?! If network rail did this, there would be public outcry. Who fancies doing a FOI request to see where the money is being spent? nextdoor
  • Score: 18

2:04pm Wed 13 Aug 14

richiepooh says...

AND!
combine this with the reports of
Warrington motorways daily standstills
Mersey toll-bridges (people avoiding tolls coming through Warrington)
increased people not using public transport as its cheaper to do the school runs or commute in car
the already poor traffic management with the myriad of unnecessary traffic lights on roundabouts

and you get GRIDLOCK
AND! combine this with the reports of Warrington motorways daily standstills Mersey toll-bridges (people avoiding tolls coming through Warrington) increased people not using public transport as its cheaper to do the school runs or commute in car the already poor traffic management with the myriad of unnecessary traffic lights on roundabouts and you get GRIDLOCK richiepooh
  • Score: 16

2:17pm Wed 13 Aug 14

stewlycoscom says...

Fuel was subsidised by the government and has gradually been rising. It was 32p a litre in 2011 its was 56p in 2012 and remember they only do about 9 mpg average. Not condoning the rises twice in one year but still the libcons have created the problem and are hiding behind the companies struggling.
Fuel was subsidised by the government and has gradually been rising. It was 32p a litre in 2011 its was 56p in 2012 and remember they only do about 9 mpg average. Not condoning the rises twice in one year but still the libcons have created the problem and are hiding behind the companies struggling. stewlycoscom
  • Score: -2

2:35pm Wed 13 Aug 14

Mr_Vegas says...

stewlycoscom wrote:
Fuel was subsidised by the government and has gradually been rising. It was 32p a litre in 2011 its was 56p in 2012 and remember they only do about 9 mpg average. Not condoning the rises twice in one year but still the libcons have created the problem and are hiding behind the companies struggling.
I agree to an extent but 2012 and 2013 also seen service cuts to offset those cuts from the government at the time.
The bottom line is that these prices are likely to be affordable for some people who simply will not be able to use the bus.
income will fall again and how will that be gained back if less passengers
fares simply cannot continue to rise at this level. Im sure the management are doing what they can to sustain the company and its future but perhaps its time for another company to invest in it or buy it
[quote][p][bold]stewlycoscom[/bold] wrote: Fuel was subsidised by the government and has gradually been rising. It was 32p a litre in 2011 its was 56p in 2012 and remember they only do about 9 mpg average. Not condoning the rises twice in one year but still the libcons have created the problem and are hiding behind the companies struggling.[/p][/quote]I agree to an extent but 2012 and 2013 also seen service cuts to offset those cuts from the government at the time. The bottom line is that these prices are likely to be affordable for some people who simply will not be able to use the bus. income will fall again and how will that be gained back if less passengers fares simply cannot continue to rise at this level. Im sure the management are doing what they can to sustain the company and its future but perhaps its time for another company to invest in it or buy it Mr_Vegas
  • Score: 12

2:48pm Wed 13 Aug 14

grey_man says...

stewlycoscom wrote:
Fuel was subsidised by the government and has gradually been rising. It was 32p a litre in 2011 its was 56p in 2012 and remember they only do about 9 mpg average. Not condoning the rises twice in one year but still the libcons have created the problem and are hiding behind the companies struggling.
Actually prices at the pumps (never mind for a company able to buy wholesale) have been falling since 2011.
[quote][p][bold]stewlycoscom[/bold] wrote: Fuel was subsidised by the government and has gradually been rising. It was 32p a litre in 2011 its was 56p in 2012 and remember they only do about 9 mpg average. Not condoning the rises twice in one year but still the libcons have created the problem and are hiding behind the companies struggling.[/p][/quote]Actually prices at the pumps (never mind for a company able to buy wholesale) have been falling since 2011. grey_man
  • Score: 5

3:06pm Wed 13 Aug 14

martin1969 says...

This will mean me finding an extra £44 a month just for my 2 children to travel to school , a raise of 64% , funny that my salary has not increased by 1% for the last 3 years , I think its time to start getting private hire quotes.
Buses are getting more and more expensive , I have noticed for a while that if there are more than 2 adults travelling in warrington a taxi is of comparable price. Now with this increase as I have not heard of a hike in private hire fayres of 64% then this will push bus travellers into cabs therefore resulting in a loss of revenue rather than a gain. Alternativley encourage private coach and bus companies into the market which all ends one way .....no more red warrington buses
This will mean me finding an extra £44 a month just for my 2 children to travel to school , a raise of 64% , funny that my salary has not increased by 1% for the last 3 years , I think its time to start getting private hire quotes. Buses are getting more and more expensive , I have noticed for a while that if there are more than 2 adults travelling in warrington a taxi is of comparable price. Now with this increase as I have not heard of a hike in private hire fayres of 64% then this will push bus travellers into cabs therefore resulting in a loss of revenue rather than a gain. Alternativley encourage private coach and bus companies into the market which all ends one way .....no more red warrington buses martin1969
  • Score: 16

4:13pm Wed 13 Aug 14

Out of Warrington says...

martin1969 wrote:
This will mean me finding an extra £44 a month just for my 2 children to travel to school , a raise of 64% , funny that my salary has not increased by 1% for the last 3 years , I think its time to start getting private hire quotes.
Buses are getting more and more expensive , I have noticed for a while that if there are more than 2 adults travelling in warrington a taxi is of comparable price. Now with this increase as I have not heard of a hike in private hire fayres of 64% then this will push bus travellers into cabs therefore resulting in a loss of revenue rather than a gain. Alternativley encourage private coach and bus companies into the market which all ends one way .....no more red warrington buses
I guess that your children are not going to their catchment school and don't live more than 3 miles from it if they do? Because if they were, they would get free transport.

Which makes me guess that they are going to a school of your choice (correct me If I'm wrong), and there's always a risk that costs will increase, or worst case scenario the bus service is topped.

The bus companies do not tread on each others toes unless there is a huge amount of commercial potential, which Warrington doesn't have., so Arriva or First will not sweep in to take over running the town network.

Supply and demand I'm afraid!

As the council owns the bus company, let your councillor know that you are unhappy with the price increase.
[quote][p][bold]martin1969[/bold] wrote: This will mean me finding an extra £44 a month just for my 2 children to travel to school , a raise of 64% , funny that my salary has not increased by 1% for the last 3 years , I think its time to start getting private hire quotes. Buses are getting more and more expensive , I have noticed for a while that if there are more than 2 adults travelling in warrington a taxi is of comparable price. Now with this increase as I have not heard of a hike in private hire fayres of 64% then this will push bus travellers into cabs therefore resulting in a loss of revenue rather than a gain. Alternativley encourage private coach and bus companies into the market which all ends one way .....no more red warrington buses[/p][/quote]I guess that your children are not going to their catchment school and don't live more than 3 miles from it if they do? Because if they were, they would get free transport. Which makes me guess that they are going to a school of your choice (correct me If I'm wrong), and there's always a risk that costs will increase, or worst case scenario the bus service is topped. The bus companies do not tread on each others toes unless there is a huge amount of commercial potential, which Warrington doesn't have., so Arriva or First will not sweep in to take over running the town network. Supply and demand I'm afraid! As the council owns the bus company, let your councillor know that you are unhappy with the price increase. Out of Warrington
  • Score: 5

4:16pm Wed 13 Aug 14

Mr Young says...

I usually drive or cycle to work at the moment. The bus stop is between 5-10 mins walk away and overpriced as it is. My work is relocating meaning I would need to catch 2 buses to work rather than 1. I was thinking of buying a monthly bus ticket when my job moves.... now that I've seen the price increase I will be sticking with the car and cycle. £84 per month (only used for 20 working days) = £4.20 per day. Considering I am already paying for a car, I can safely say that the 10 miles I will be driving each day will not cost £4.20 in fuel!
I usually drive or cycle to work at the moment. The bus stop is between 5-10 mins walk away and overpriced as it is. My work is relocating meaning I would need to catch 2 buses to work rather than 1. I was thinking of buying a monthly bus ticket when my job moves.... now that I've seen the price increase I will be sticking with the car and cycle. £84 per month (only used for 20 working days) = £4.20 per day. Considering I am already paying for a car, I can safely say that the 10 miles I will be driving each day will not cost £4.20 in fuel! Mr Young
  • Score: 10

4:17pm Wed 13 Aug 14

Out of Warrington says...

grey_man wrote:
Out of Warrington wrote:
grey_man wrote:
The average cost of fuel has been falling for three years. So the 'spokesman' (funny how they keep their names away from bad news) - is quite simply lying when he says they have increased. I've no idea about maintenance costs but I doubt they're significantly higher.

Be good to see what the council has to say about this given that they want less traffic on the roads even though they're closing local facilities, approving out of town shops, and making it harder for local shops to trade, so obliging people to travel more. I know they keep talking about improving the town's transport infrastructure but they spend more time on press releases and bleating than actually doing anything about it.
The bus company is owned by the council and operates as a 'arms length' operation. This means that the bus company cannot operate at a loss i.e. isn't making money, so I guess this is why the fares have gone up.

Conversely, the company cannot make a profit, but can use any surplus to reinvest in new buses, infrastructure etc.

A lot of the shortfall in revenue is exacerbated by the use of the older persons/disabled bus pass.
And that is exactly why councils and their staff should be kept at a bit more than arms length, as they should have been with LiveWire. Rather than making buses more attractive to customers when 'surpluses' fall, they make them less attractive. I know you'll disagree but the town is run by morons. Even if many of the frontline staff do a good job, the councillors and officers at their head are cretins with no imagination and, in the case of the cowardly 'spokesman' who doesn't even have the guts to stand by his own words, a liar, making stuff up to justify a bad decision.

The rest of us just have to muddle through the omnishambles. We must never forget this is the council's town and the rest of us just get to live in it.
Every organisation has it's quota of morons, so I wouldn't disagree with you on that point.

Believe you me, you are far better off with a municipal bus company than one of the truly commercial operators such as Arriva, Stagecoach, First etc. they have no regard for socially necessary services, and if they were running the Warrington network there would be far fewer services.
[quote][p][bold]grey_man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Out of Warrington[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]grey_man[/bold] wrote: The average cost of fuel has been falling for three years. So the 'spokesman' (funny how they keep their names away from bad news) - is quite simply lying when he says they have increased. I've no idea about maintenance costs but I doubt they're significantly higher. Be good to see what the council has to say about this given that they want less traffic on the roads even though they're closing local facilities, approving out of town shops, and making it harder for local shops to trade, so obliging people to travel more. I know they keep talking about improving the town's transport infrastructure but they spend more time on press releases and bleating than actually doing anything about it.[/p][/quote]The bus company is owned by the council and operates as a 'arms length' operation. This means that the bus company cannot operate at a loss i.e. isn't making money, so I guess this is why the fares have gone up. Conversely, the company cannot make a profit, but can use any surplus to reinvest in new buses, infrastructure etc. A lot of the shortfall in revenue is exacerbated by the use of the older persons/disabled bus pass.[/p][/quote]And that is exactly why councils and their staff should be kept at a bit more than arms length, as they should have been with LiveWire. Rather than making buses more attractive to customers when 'surpluses' fall, they make them less attractive. I know you'll disagree but the town is run by morons. Even if many of the frontline staff do a good job, the councillors and officers at their head are cretins with no imagination and, in the case of the cowardly 'spokesman' who doesn't even have the guts to stand by his own words, a liar, making stuff up to justify a bad decision. The rest of us just have to muddle through the omnishambles. We must never forget this is the council's town and the rest of us just get to live in it.[/p][/quote]Every organisation has it's quota of morons, so I wouldn't disagree with you on that point. Believe you me, you are far better off with a municipal bus company than one of the truly commercial operators such as Arriva, Stagecoach, First etc. they have no regard for socially necessary services, and if they were running the Warrington network there would be far fewer services. Out of Warrington
  • Score: 5

4:52pm Wed 13 Aug 14

grey_man says...

Out of Warrington wrote:
grey_man wrote:
Out of Warrington wrote:
grey_man wrote:
The average cost of fuel has been falling for three years. So the 'spokesman' (funny how they keep their names away from bad news) - is quite simply lying when he says they have increased. I've no idea about maintenance costs but I doubt they're significantly higher.

Be good to see what the council has to say about this given that they want less traffic on the roads even though they're closing local facilities, approving out of town shops, and making it harder for local shops to trade, so obliging people to travel more. I know they keep talking about improving the town's transport infrastructure but they spend more time on press releases and bleating than actually doing anything about it.
The bus company is owned by the council and operates as a 'arms length' operation. This means that the bus company cannot operate at a loss i.e. isn't making money, so I guess this is why the fares have gone up.

Conversely, the company cannot make a profit, but can use any surplus to reinvest in new buses, infrastructure etc.

A lot of the shortfall in revenue is exacerbated by the use of the older persons/disabled bus pass.
And that is exactly why councils and their staff should be kept at a bit more than arms length, as they should have been with LiveWire. Rather than making buses more attractive to customers when 'surpluses' fall, they make them less attractive. I know you'll disagree but the town is run by morons. Even if many of the frontline staff do a good job, the councillors and officers at their head are cretins with no imagination and, in the case of the cowardly 'spokesman' who doesn't even have the guts to stand by his own words, a liar, making stuff up to justify a bad decision.

The rest of us just have to muddle through the omnishambles. We must never forget this is the council's town and the rest of us just get to live in it.
Every organisation has it's quota of morons, so I wouldn't disagree with you on that point.

Believe you me, you are far better off with a municipal bus company than one of the truly commercial operators such as Arriva, Stagecoach, First etc. they have no regard for socially necessary services, and if they were running the Warrington network there would be far fewer services.
Maybe true but then in a proper business the moron would not be allowed to say 'we are hemorrhaging customers and the one we have think our product stinks - let's make it progressively worse and charge them two thirds more for it and see how that goes?'

Before clearing off on holiday and letting an anonymous spokesman lie to the press about something that is very easy to fact check.
[quote][p][bold]Out of Warrington[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]grey_man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Out of Warrington[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]grey_man[/bold] wrote: The average cost of fuel has been falling for three years. So the 'spokesman' (funny how they keep their names away from bad news) - is quite simply lying when he says they have increased. I've no idea about maintenance costs but I doubt they're significantly higher. Be good to see what the council has to say about this given that they want less traffic on the roads even though they're closing local facilities, approving out of town shops, and making it harder for local shops to trade, so obliging people to travel more. I know they keep talking about improving the town's transport infrastructure but they spend more time on press releases and bleating than actually doing anything about it.[/p][/quote]The bus company is owned by the council and operates as a 'arms length' operation. This means that the bus company cannot operate at a loss i.e. isn't making money, so I guess this is why the fares have gone up. Conversely, the company cannot make a profit, but can use any surplus to reinvest in new buses, infrastructure etc. A lot of the shortfall in revenue is exacerbated by the use of the older persons/disabled bus pass.[/p][/quote]And that is exactly why councils and their staff should be kept at a bit more than arms length, as they should have been with LiveWire. Rather than making buses more attractive to customers when 'surpluses' fall, they make them less attractive. I know you'll disagree but the town is run by morons. Even if many of the frontline staff do a good job, the councillors and officers at their head are cretins with no imagination and, in the case of the cowardly 'spokesman' who doesn't even have the guts to stand by his own words, a liar, making stuff up to justify a bad decision. The rest of us just have to muddle through the omnishambles. We must never forget this is the council's town and the rest of us just get to live in it.[/p][/quote]Every organisation has it's quota of morons, so I wouldn't disagree with you on that point. Believe you me, you are far better off with a municipal bus company than one of the truly commercial operators such as Arriva, Stagecoach, First etc. they have no regard for socially necessary services, and if they were running the Warrington network there would be far fewer services.[/p][/quote]Maybe true but then in a proper business the moron would not be allowed to say 'we are hemorrhaging customers and the one we have think our product stinks - let's make it progressively worse and charge them two thirds more for it and see how that goes?' Before clearing off on holiday and letting an anonymous spokesman lie to the press about something that is very easy to fact check. grey_man
  • Score: 15

6:28pm Wed 13 Aug 14

John says says...

50% increase in monthly bus pass is obscene when most of warringtons working class have not had a pay rise for years . They want sacking and replaced by another company I for one will be taking my car test very soon hope they rot in hell Ps I believe the boss is in his villa in Florida sunning his greedy @r5e
50% increase in monthly bus pass is obscene when most of warringtons working class have not had a pay rise for years . They want sacking and replaced by another company I for one will be taking my car test very soon hope they rot in hell Ps I believe the boss is in his villa in Florida sunning his greedy @r5e John says
  • Score: 11

6:43pm Wed 13 Aug 14

Cheap Mower says...

Its probably cheaper to fund a car
Its probably cheaper to fund a car Cheap Mower
  • Score: 10

6:54pm Wed 13 Aug 14

mrdaveyasdfr says...

I feel sorry for those who have to use a bus.
I don't have to but some times do. It just means I am now less likely to do so.
Do the council not have a policy to encourage people to use public transport?
I feel sorry for those who have to use a bus. I don't have to but some times do. It just means I am now less likely to do so. Do the council not have a policy to encourage people to use public transport? mrdaveyasdfr
  • Score: 12

7:22pm Wed 13 Aug 14

stewlycoscom says...

grey_man wrote:
stewlycoscom wrote:
Fuel was subsidised by the government and has gradually been rising. It was 32p a litre in 2011 its was 56p in 2012 and remember they only do about 9 mpg average. Not condoning the rises twice in one year but still the libcons have created the problem and are hiding behind the companies struggling.
Actually prices at the pumps (never mind for a company able to buy wholesale) have been falling since 2011.
you didn't understand my comment. The fuel duty (tax) is discounted by the government for bus companies however they have year on year since 2011 been eroding the discount. This doesn't sound unfair until you realise that an average bus does about 9 mpg (the newer ones do even less and need a separate tank of adblue filling also) and would cost about £500 per tank to fill if full pump price was paid. Still not saying the rise is fair, because it clearly isn't but the government isn't helping by removing all subsidies to what is essentially a public service that vulnerable people rely on.
[quote][p][bold]grey_man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]stewlycoscom[/bold] wrote: Fuel was subsidised by the government and has gradually been rising. It was 32p a litre in 2011 its was 56p in 2012 and remember they only do about 9 mpg average. Not condoning the rises twice in one year but still the libcons have created the problem and are hiding behind the companies struggling.[/p][/quote]Actually prices at the pumps (never mind for a company able to buy wholesale) have been falling since 2011.[/p][/quote]you didn't understand my comment. The fuel duty (tax) is discounted by the government for bus companies however they have year on year since 2011 been eroding the discount. This doesn't sound unfair until you realise that an average bus does about 9 mpg (the newer ones do even less and need a separate tank of adblue filling also) and would cost about £500 per tank to fill if full pump price was paid. Still not saying the rise is fair, because it clearly isn't but the government isn't helping by removing all subsidies to what is essentially a public service that vulnerable people rely on. stewlycoscom
  • Score: 6

7:22pm Wed 13 Aug 14

charlotte01925 says...

Warrington bus service is an absolute joke. I stopped buying a monthly pass when they put the price up to £56 a month and I stopped using the bus service altogether on principle as the buses are never on time and the bus drivers have no manners or customer service skills. They need to understand that passengers are paying for this service and they expect a little common curtesy - if they were working in any other kind of public service they wouldn't get away with the attitudes a lot of them have. I understand it can be frustrating at times but still you wouldn't put up with that in a shop or any where else you are a paying customer so why should you with the his service? Those reasons given seemed like poor excuses to me they are just trying to justify an unnecessary price jump and robbing people blind for a terrible service. I am glad I walk everywhere now I refuse to pay those prices it is ridiculous
Warrington bus service is an absolute joke. I stopped buying a monthly pass when they put the price up to £56 a month and I stopped using the bus service altogether on principle as the buses are never on time and the bus drivers have no manners or customer service skills. They need to understand that passengers are paying for this service and they expect a little common curtesy - if they were working in any other kind of public service they wouldn't get away with the attitudes a lot of them have. I understand it can be frustrating at times but still you wouldn't put up with that in a shop or any where else you are a paying customer so why should you with the his service? Those reasons given seemed like poor excuses to me they are just trying to justify an unnecessary price jump and robbing people blind for a terrible service. I am glad I walk everywhere now I refuse to pay those prices it is ridiculous charlotte01925
  • Score: 10

7:27pm Wed 13 Aug 14

stewlycoscom says...

John says wrote:
50% increase in monthly bus pass is obscene when most of warringtons working class have not had a pay rise for years . They want sacking and replaced by another company I for one will be taking my car test very soon hope they rot in hell Ps I believe the boss is in his villa in Florida sunning his greedy @r5e
However bad you think the employees are I can assure you those at the bottom of the food chain in WBT have had 1% rise last year and 2% rise this year so where the other 47% has gone is only a matter of speculation. I certainly wouldn't like any of them to "rot in hell" for a 3% rise whilst the board of councillors (thats right they have a whole board) sit on fat tasty retainers for chairing 5 meetings a year all on public money.
[quote][p][bold]John says[/bold] wrote: 50% increase in monthly bus pass is obscene when most of warringtons working class have not had a pay rise for years . They want sacking and replaced by another company I for one will be taking my car test very soon hope they rot in hell Ps I believe the boss is in his villa in Florida sunning his greedy @r5e[/p][/quote]However bad you think the employees are I can assure you those at the bottom of the food chain in WBT have had 1% rise last year and 2% rise this year so where the other 47% has gone is only a matter of speculation. I certainly wouldn't like any of them to "rot in hell" for a 3% rise whilst the board of councillors (thats right they have a whole board) sit on fat tasty retainers for chairing 5 meetings a year all on public money. stewlycoscom
  • Score: 6

7:28pm Wed 13 Aug 14

stewlycoscom says...

happytee39 wrote:
Again!! Doesn't seem like 5 minutes since the last one..give up on buses..I'l stick to the train..its cheaper!!!
Your right it was only february 6 months ago!
[quote][p][bold]happytee39[/bold] wrote: Again!! Doesn't seem like 5 minutes since the last one..give up on buses..I'l stick to the train..its cheaper!!![/p][/quote]Your right it was only february 6 months ago! stewlycoscom
  • Score: 10

7:33pm Wed 13 Aug 14

stewlycoscom says...

Kellystad wrote:
We, the paying customers, are now paying for the effects of the strike that the bus drivers undertook last year. Major cuts to the bus services provided by slashing routes and times and now a hike in the cost of travel.
Hope it was worth it because a lot of us no longer use the buses as a result of the recent changes to the service and this price hike certainly adds to this.
yes thats right blame those at the bottom of the pile they are easier to reach. Has it occurred to you that the problem is further up. A board of directors AND a Board of Councillors! then the ever increasing list of people queueing to sue for every little knocked wing mirror (not saying genuine cases shouldn't but there is a definite claim culture on the buses). If you have read this far I'd like you to know I disagree with the rise it is exactly the wrong move in the current financial climate, I just wish people would lay off frontline staff.
[quote][p][bold]Kellystad[/bold] wrote: We, the paying customers, are now paying for the effects of the strike that the bus drivers undertook last year. Major cuts to the bus services provided by slashing routes and times and now a hike in the cost of travel. Hope it was worth it because a lot of us no longer use the buses as a result of the recent changes to the service and this price hike certainly adds to this.[/p][/quote]yes thats right blame those at the bottom of the pile they are easier to reach. Has it occurred to you that the problem is further up. A board of directors AND a Board of Councillors! then the ever increasing list of people queueing to sue for every little knocked wing mirror (not saying genuine cases shouldn't but there is a definite claim culture on the buses). If you have read this far I'd like you to know I disagree with the rise it is exactly the wrong move in the current financial climate, I just wish people would lay off frontline staff. stewlycoscom
  • Score: 5

8:51pm Wed 13 Aug 14

FED-UP-DOT-COM says...

So with the new increase does that mean the bus's will actually run to the correct time table or will it be as usual... driver turns up at the terminus 5 mins late, gets out of his bus and goes for a coffee, then stroll's back to his bus stopping to chat to one and all.
This is not an increase....it's daylight robbery, but sadly we haven't got a choice ! As it has been previously commented it will be cheaper to get a taxi. . . .then Warrington transport will say we have less customer's.....so need less driver's - route's - bus's etc.
Who wants to bet the fare's will increase again in six month's.......At least Dick Turpin used to wear a mask ! ! ! ! ! !
So with the new increase does that mean the bus's will actually run to the correct time table or will it be as usual... driver turns up at the terminus 5 mins late, gets out of his bus and goes for a coffee, then stroll's back to his bus stopping to chat to one and all. This is not an increase....it's daylight robbery, but sadly we haven't got a choice ! As it has been previously commented it will be cheaper to get a taxi. . . .then Warrington transport will say we have less customer's.....so need less driver's - route's - bus's etc. Who wants to bet the fare's will increase again in six month's.......At least Dick Turpin used to wear a mask ! ! ! ! ! ! FED-UP-DOT-COM
  • Score: 12

10:23pm Wed 13 Aug 14

dismayed... says...

https://www.change.o
rg/en-GB/petitions/n
etwork-warrington-st
op-the-great-bus-rip
-off

sign the petition against the price hikes!! Warrington against the great bus rip off!!
https://www.change.o rg/en-GB/petitions/n etwork-warrington-st op-the-great-bus-rip -off sign the petition against the price hikes!! Warrington against the great bus rip off!! dismayed...
  • Score: 3

11:10pm Wed 13 Aug 14

choperado says...

Yeah some people might be going a fair distance so feel hard done by but the rest...people need to walk more. There should be no problem for most to walk an hour/3 or 4 miles. People will pay to go to a gym but not walk somewhere!? Wierd.
Those that cant afford it look at whats important, catching a bus to work or the latest iPhone for all the family and sky tv? C'est la vie, get over it your whining wont change anything.
Yeah some people might be going a fair distance so feel hard done by but the rest...people need to walk more. There should be no problem for most to walk an hour/3 or 4 miles. People will pay to go to a gym but not walk somewhere!? Wierd. Those that cant afford it look at whats important, catching a bus to work or the latest iPhone for all the family and sky tv? C'est la vie, get over it your whining wont change anything. choperado
  • Score: 5

11:43pm Wed 13 Aug 14

livlass says...

If the bus company had actually put the fare revenue back into the service instead of totally refurnishing their mangers offices ie en suite toilet facilities and the MD Driving round in the top of the range vehicle
That is just adding insult to the regular bus users who have got to use public transport to get to work .
Regarding the comment before passed about the bus driver some of them need to have a lesson in personal hygiene as well as manners !!!!!.
If the bus company had actually put the fare revenue back into the service instead of totally refurnishing their mangers offices ie en suite toilet facilities and the MD Driving round in the top of the range vehicle That is just adding insult to the regular bus users who have got to use public transport to get to work . Regarding the comment before passed about the bus driver some of them need to have a lesson in personal hygiene as well as manners !!!!!. livlass
  • Score: 2

11:48pm Wed 13 Aug 14

livlass says...

**** annoyed wrote:
The fares go up AGAIN but the service they provide is still ****, half of the drivers are **** miserable, so all I can say is bring on ARRIVA and get rid of NWW for good
I agree at least they have smart helpful and polite drivers also they are more reliable and most of all the fares are value for money .
[quote][p][bold]**** annoyed[/bold] wrote: The fares go up AGAIN but the service they provide is still ****, half of the drivers are **** miserable, so all I can say is bring on ARRIVA and get rid of NWW for good[/p][/quote]I agree at least they have smart helpful and polite drivers also they are more reliable and most of all the fares are value for money . livlass
  • Score: 7

12:49am Thu 14 Aug 14

Rex Mundi says...

http://www.localgov.
co.uk/Bus-use-could-
drop-20-warns-pteg/2
2092

http://staffslive.co
.uk/2013/12/17/bus-u
se-in-stoke-on-trent
-plummets-after-coun
cil-cuts/

http://www.lancashir
etelegraph.co.uk/opi
nion/11156799.Jack_S
traw__We_must_break_
spiral_of_decline_in
_bus_services/

Warrington bucked the trend for a while but that's changed in the last couple of years. Out of town employment is one reason - if everyone works in one place (the town centre) you can run a frequent service from all round town - but you can't put on buses from every residential area to every employment centre. Plus the government stopped giving people bus passes at 60, and even those who have them don't use them as much.

And for all the fans of the private companies, I can't pin down when this was (I think 2009) but this is what the service is/was like in Norwich (where no bus runs in the evening without a council subsidy): http://www.norwich.g
ov.uk/CommitteeMeeti
ngs/Scrutiny%20local
%20bus%20review/Docu
ment%20Library/3/Res
ponsestoconsultation
2.pdf
http://www.localgov. co.uk/Bus-use-could- drop-20-warns-pteg/2 2092 http://staffslive.co .uk/2013/12/17/bus-u se-in-stoke-on-trent -plummets-after-coun cil-cuts/ http://www.lancashir etelegraph.co.uk/opi nion/11156799.Jack_S traw__We_must_break_ spiral_of_decline_in _bus_services/ Warrington bucked the trend for a while but that's changed in the last couple of years. Out of town employment is one reason - if everyone works in one place (the town centre) you can run a frequent service from all round town - but you can't put on buses from every residential area to every employment centre. Plus the government stopped giving people bus passes at 60, and even those who have them don't use them as much. And for all the fans of the private companies, I can't pin down when this was (I think 2009) but this is what the service is/was like in Norwich (where no bus runs in the evening without a council subsidy): http://www.norwich.g ov.uk/CommitteeMeeti ngs/Scrutiny%20local %20bus%20review/Docu ment%20Library/3/Res ponsestoconsultation 2.pdf Rex Mundi
  • Score: 3

12:50am Thu 14 Aug 14

Rex Mundi says...

How do you post links without it breaking up the lines?
How do you post links without it breaking up the lines? Rex Mundi
  • Score: -1

5:06am Thu 14 Aug 14

nikki-warrington says...

Oh flamming great, put the prices up yet again, i have to use 2 buses a day just to get home from work, would rather walk now as got a tiny baby to feed and clothe without being left skint because all my money as gone on bus fare, totally disgusted, probably wouldnt be as bad if the bus drivers learned how to be nice to people rather than treating paying customers like **** on a daily basis
Oh flamming great, put the prices up yet again, i have to use 2 buses a day just to get home from work, would rather walk now as got a tiny baby to feed and clothe without being left skint because all my money as gone on bus fare, totally disgusted, probably wouldnt be as bad if the bus drivers learned how to be nice to people rather than treating paying customers like **** on a daily basis nikki-warrington
  • Score: 11

5:42am Thu 14 Aug 14

grey_man says...

stewlycoscom wrote:
grey_man wrote:
stewlycoscom wrote:
Fuel was subsidised by the government and has gradually been rising. It was 32p a litre in 2011 its was 56p in 2012 and remember they only do about 9 mpg average. Not condoning the rises twice in one year but still the libcons have created the problem and are hiding behind the companies struggling.
Actually prices at the pumps (never mind for a company able to buy wholesale) have been falling since 2011.
you didn't understand my comment. The fuel duty (tax) is discounted by the government for bus companies however they have year on year since 2011 been eroding the discount. This doesn't sound unfair until you realise that an average bus does about 9 mpg (the newer ones do even less and need a separate tank of adblue filling also) and would cost about £500 per tank to fill if full pump price was paid. Still not saying the rise is fair, because it clearly isn't but the government isn't helping by removing all subsidies to what is essentially a public service that vulnerable people rely on.
OK. I understand now.
[quote][p][bold]stewlycoscom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]grey_man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]stewlycoscom[/bold] wrote: Fuel was subsidised by the government and has gradually been rising. It was 32p a litre in 2011 its was 56p in 2012 and remember they only do about 9 mpg average. Not condoning the rises twice in one year but still the libcons have created the problem and are hiding behind the companies struggling.[/p][/quote]Actually prices at the pumps (never mind for a company able to buy wholesale) have been falling since 2011.[/p][/quote]you didn't understand my comment. The fuel duty (tax) is discounted by the government for bus companies however they have year on year since 2011 been eroding the discount. This doesn't sound unfair until you realise that an average bus does about 9 mpg (the newer ones do even less and need a separate tank of adblue filling also) and would cost about £500 per tank to fill if full pump price was paid. Still not saying the rise is fair, because it clearly isn't but the government isn't helping by removing all subsidies to what is essentially a public service that vulnerable people rely on.[/p][/quote]OK. I understand now. grey_man
  • Score: 2

8:19am Thu 14 Aug 14

moleogod says...

https://www.change.o
rg/petitions/network
-warrington-stop-the
-great-bus-rip-off?r
ecruiter=46012416&ut
m_source=share_petit
ion&utm_medium=twitt
er&utm_campaign=shar
e_twitter_mobile
https://www.change.o rg/petitions/network -warrington-stop-the -great-bus-rip-off?r ecruiter=46012416&ut m_source=share_petit ion&utm_medium=twitt er&utm_campaign=shar e_twitter_mobile moleogod
  • Score: 1

8:30am Thu 14 Aug 14

madbusman says...

I have read with great intrest all the comments about this and firstly don't blame the steering wheel attendants for bad management. I agree a small amount of drivers are lets say bad tempered but don't tar them all the same secondly yes the fares have gone rapidly up and fast by to much to quick thirdly one comment was a driver comes in and gets off bus they don't have commodes on them do you work in an office and go the lacy when you want and buses not on time. I will tell you management cut the running time consistently for years while traffic went up hence bob all chance off being on time and yes I do think Wbt have really cocked up with this price rise but look at management and not the rubbish they try to pass the book at other things and ps do you want one of the big 4 they will cut services and prices will go up again
I have read with great intrest all the comments about this and firstly don't blame the steering wheel attendants for bad management. I agree a small amount of drivers are lets say bad tempered but don't tar them all the same secondly yes the fares have gone rapidly up and fast by to much to quick thirdly one comment was a driver comes in and gets off bus they don't have commodes on them do you work in an office and go the lacy when you want and buses not on time. I will tell you management cut the running time consistently for years while traffic went up hence bob all chance off being on time and yes I do think Wbt have really cocked up with this price rise but look at management and not the rubbish they try to pass the book at other things and ps do you want one of the big 4 they will cut services and prices will go up again madbusman
  • Score: 11

11:22am Thu 14 Aug 14

voiceoftruth says...

It's an absolute disgrace!! They put the prices up not long ago. How on earth can they justify a 65% INCREASE, what do the students gain from the hike in price?? Door to door service, a meal provided...!!!!

It's alot of extra money to expect people to find, especially if you have more than one child that requires a Student pass.

Shame on you!!!
It's an absolute disgrace!! They put the prices up not long ago. How on earth can they justify a 65% INCREASE, what do the students gain from the hike in price?? Door to door service, a meal provided...!!!! It's alot of extra money to expect people to find, especially if you have more than one child that requires a Student pass. Shame on you!!! voiceoftruth
  • Score: 11

12:20pm Thu 14 Aug 14

tojahejome says...

Dont blame the bus company, blame the council for the reduction is subsidy. The council say that they want people to use public transport, but in reality they want you to take you car in to town and pay the expensive parking fees. Why don;t the council ban the councillors for claiming taxi fares on expenses and make them use the bus to see how us mortals cope
Dont blame the bus company, blame the council for the reduction is subsidy. The council say that they want people to use public transport, but in reality they want you to take you car in to town and pay the expensive parking fees. Why don;t the council ban the councillors for claiming taxi fares on expenses and make them use the bus to see how us mortals cope tojahejome
  • Score: 14

1:55pm Thu 14 Aug 14

richiepooh says...

Also be alerted. This could be a probluff, a tactic of announcing a substancial price increase of say 30%, they know there will be outrage so they announce a 50% increase then allow that to kick off, then release the 30% they really want makinging the outrage dissapate.

To me nothing less of the removal of the contract that "network warrington" have is good enough now time for a new tender.

£1 is plenty enough for most inner warrington to town. as some else said and its true if you live in orford, longford, dallam, bewysey, stocton heath, padgate a taxi to town day rate is only about £4

if theres 2 or more of you, its cheaper, to the door and more timely..vote with your feet!
Also be alerted. This could be a probluff, a tactic of announcing a substancial price increase of say 30%, they know there will be outrage so they announce a 50% increase then allow that to kick off, then release the 30% they really want makinging the outrage dissapate. To me nothing less of the removal of the contract that "network warrington" have is good enough now time for a new tender. £1 is plenty enough for most inner warrington to town. as some else said and its true if you live in orford, longford, dallam, bewysey, stocton heath, padgate a taxi to town day rate is only about £4 if theres 2 or more of you, its cheaper, to the door and more timely..vote with your feet! richiepooh
  • Score: 9

8:15pm Thu 14 Aug 14

Rex Mundi says...

There is no reduction in council subsidy because there is no subsidy to reduce. The council can pay to keep some uncommercial services going but they can't subsidise fares.
There is no reduction in council subsidy because there is no subsidy to reduce. The council can pay to keep some uncommercial services going but they can't subsidise fares. Rex Mundi
  • Score: 6

12:05am Fri 15 Aug 14

Crunchy Frog says...

Well, this is deregulation for you.

Yes, Network Warrington is owned by the council, but the company is run by a separate team and has been since 26 October 1986.

Since that date, fares have gone up along with certain services being slashed because they don't make a profit, since that is what deregulation was geared towards - making money and Network Warrington's competitors who buy any old clapped out jaloppies and stick MDF boards in their windscreens with 16X scribbled on them.

There is an answer to all this mess.

BRING BACK THE NATIONAL BUS COMPANY AND RENATIONALISE THE BUS SERVICES.
Well, this is deregulation for you. Yes, Network Warrington is owned by the council, but the company is run by a separate team and has been since 26 October 1986. Since that date, fares have gone up along with certain services being slashed because they don't make a profit, since that is what deregulation was geared towards - making money and Network Warrington's competitors who buy any old clapped out jaloppies and stick MDF boards in their windscreens with 16X scribbled on them. There is an answer to all this mess. BRING BACK THE NATIONAL BUS COMPANY AND RENATIONALISE THE BUS SERVICES. Crunchy Frog
  • Score: 12

1:32am Fri 15 Aug 14

ant1970 says...

Some Bus Driver's Are Alright But It Is The Foreign Driver's Don't Speak So They Aren't Confronted On Why They're Here In The United Kingdom.
Some Bus Driver's Are Alright But It Is The Foreign Driver's Don't Speak So They Aren't Confronted On Why They're Here In The United Kingdom. ant1970
  • Score: -8

8:37am Fri 15 Aug 14

Rex Mundi says...

richiepooh wrote:
Also be alerted. This could be a probluff, a tactic of announcing a substancial price increase of say 30%, they know there will be outrage so they announce a 50% increase then allow that to kick off, then release the 30% they really want makinging the outrage dissapate.

To me nothing less of the removal of the contract that "network warrington" have is good enough now time for a new tender.

£1 is plenty enough for most inner warrington to town. as some else said and its true if you live in orford, longford, dallam, bewysey, stocton heath, padgate a taxi to town day rate is only about £4

if theres 2 or more of you, its cheaper, to the door and more timely..vote with your feet!
There is no contract. There is no subsidy, just a council budget for socially necessary services which would go nowhere near filling the gap if a profit-making company took over and only ran services that made a clear profit.
http://www.theguardi
an.com/uk/2010/jun/2
4/bus-operators-prof
its
"The five main bus operators account for nearly three-quarters of the industry's £4bn turnover, with operating margins of 11.2% – nearly double those of smaller rivals." And the smaller companies are vulnerable (two gone out of business in Greater Manchester in last two years, and Coachways has pulled out of its Altrincham services - leaving Warrington and Greater Manchester to have to pay Network Warrington to take them over!)

And (isn't google marvellous) - a spokesman said "the routes to be removed have underperformed for a number of years, despite the introduction of a variety of marketing and promotional initiatives. The company is now faced with extra cost pressures due to the economic climate, high fuel prices, increased competition and cuts in external funding. It said the proposed changes to the routes will ensure the long term sustainability of other, better-used services." Actually, it wasn't even a "spokesman" - it was "First".
Read more: http://www.westernda
ilypress.co.uk/bus-s
ervice-cuts-job-loss
es-loom-Somerset/sto
ry-19079474-detail/s
tory.html#ixzz3ARWZb
cBH
[quote][p][bold]richiepooh[/bold] wrote: Also be alerted. This could be a probluff, a tactic of announcing a substancial price increase of say 30%, they know there will be outrage so they announce a 50% increase then allow that to kick off, then release the 30% they really want makinging the outrage dissapate. To me nothing less of the removal of the contract that "network warrington" have is good enough now time for a new tender. £1 is plenty enough for most inner warrington to town. as some else said and its true if you live in orford, longford, dallam, bewysey, stocton heath, padgate a taxi to town day rate is only about £4 if theres 2 or more of you, its cheaper, to the door and more timely..vote with your feet![/p][/quote]There is no contract. There is no subsidy, just a council budget for socially necessary services which would go nowhere near filling the gap if a profit-making company took over and only ran services that made a clear profit. http://www.theguardi an.com/uk/2010/jun/2 4/bus-operators-prof its "The five main bus operators account for nearly three-quarters of the industry's £4bn turnover, with operating margins of 11.2% – nearly double those of smaller rivals." And the smaller companies are vulnerable (two gone out of business in Greater Manchester in last two years, and Coachways has pulled out of its Altrincham services - leaving Warrington and Greater Manchester to have to pay Network Warrington to take them over!) And (isn't google marvellous) - a spokesman said "the routes to be removed have underperformed for a number of years, despite the introduction of a variety of marketing and promotional initiatives. The company is now faced with extra cost pressures due to the economic climate, high fuel prices, increased competition and cuts in external funding. It said the proposed changes to the routes will ensure the long term sustainability of other, better-used services." Actually, it wasn't even a "spokesman" - it was "First". Read more: http://www.westernda ilypress.co.uk/bus-s ervice-cuts-job-loss es-loom-Somerset/sto ry-19079474-detail/s tory.html#ixzz3ARWZb cBH Rex Mundi
  • Score: 5

12:29pm Fri 15 Aug 14

WillieBob says...

It just goes to show how incompetent the people in charge of running WBT are, that their solutions are to cut services and increase fares. I'd wager that the big chiefs in the transport dept have never worked in the private sector.
It just goes to show how incompetent the people in charge of running WBT are, that their solutions are to cut services and increase fares. I'd wager that the big chiefs in the transport dept have never worked in the private sector. WillieBob
  • Score: 15

12:29pm Fri 15 Aug 14

icooke69 says...

Rex Mundi wrote:
How do you post links without it breaking up the lines?
http://tinyurl.com/
[quote][p][bold]Rex Mundi[/bold] wrote: How do you post links without it breaking up the lines?[/p][/quote]http://tinyurl.com/ icooke69
  • Score: 0

10:55pm Fri 15 Aug 14

Cllr Russ Bowden says...

tojahejome wrote:
Dont blame the bus company, blame the council for the reduction is subsidy. The council say that they want people to use public transport, but in reality they want you to take you car in to town and pay the expensive parking fees. Why don;t the council ban the councillors for claiming taxi fares on expenses and make them use the bus to see how us mortals cope
Councillors do not claim taxi fares on expenses - they are given a flat rate for travel within the Borough. That applies for car, bus or taxi - and plenty of Councillors use the local bus network.
[quote][p][bold]tojahejome[/bold] wrote: Dont blame the bus company, blame the council for the reduction is subsidy. The council say that they want people to use public transport, but in reality they want you to take you car in to town and pay the expensive parking fees. Why don;t the council ban the councillors for claiming taxi fares on expenses and make them use the bus to see how us mortals cope[/p][/quote]Councillors do not claim taxi fares on expenses - they are given a flat rate for travel within the Borough. That applies for car, bus or taxi - and plenty of Councillors use the local bus network. Cllr Russ Bowden
  • Score: -11

11:01pm Fri 15 Aug 14

Cllr Russ Bowden says...

stewlycoscom wrote:
John says wrote:
50% increase in monthly bus pass is obscene when most of warringtons working class have not had a pay rise for years . They want sacking and replaced by another company I for one will be taking my car test very soon hope they rot in hell Ps I believe the boss is in his villa in Florida sunning his greedy @r5e
However bad you think the employees are I can assure you those at the bottom of the food chain in WBT have had 1% rise last year and 2% rise this year so where the other 47% has gone is only a matter of speculation. I certainly wouldn't like any of them to "rot in hell" for a 3% rise whilst the board of councillors (thats right they have a whole board) sit on fat tasty retainers for chairing 5 meetings a year all on public money.
The Network Warrington board includes non-executive directors that are Councillors drawn from across the parties. They get zero recompense for their time and effort. They also attend a Board meeting every month.
[quote][p][bold]stewlycoscom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John says[/bold] wrote: 50% increase in monthly bus pass is obscene when most of warringtons working class have not had a pay rise for years . They want sacking and replaced by another company I for one will be taking my car test very soon hope they rot in hell Ps I believe the boss is in his villa in Florida sunning his greedy @r5e[/p][/quote]However bad you think the employees are I can assure you those at the bottom of the food chain in WBT have had 1% rise last year and 2% rise this year so where the other 47% has gone is only a matter of speculation. I certainly wouldn't like any of them to "rot in hell" for a 3% rise whilst the board of councillors (thats right they have a whole board) sit on fat tasty retainers for chairing 5 meetings a year all on public money.[/p][/quote]The Network Warrington board includes non-executive directors that are Councillors drawn from across the parties. They get zero recompense for their time and effort. They also attend a Board meeting every month. Cllr Russ Bowden
  • Score: -12

11:47pm Fri 15 Aug 14

JonnyV says...

Cllr Russ Bowden wrote:
stewlycoscom wrote:
John says wrote:
50% increase in monthly bus pass is obscene when most of warringtons working class have not had a pay rise for years . They want sacking and replaced by another company I for one will be taking my car test very soon hope they rot in hell Ps I believe the boss is in his villa in Florida sunning his greedy @r5e
However bad you think the employees are I can assure you those at the bottom of the food chain in WBT have had 1% rise last year and 2% rise this year so where the other 47% has gone is only a matter of speculation. I certainly wouldn't like any of them to "rot in hell" for a 3% rise whilst the board of councillors (thats right they have a whole board) sit on fat tasty retainers for chairing 5 meetings a year all on public money.
The Network Warrington board includes non-executive directors that are Councillors drawn from across the parties. They get zero recompense for their time and effort. They also attend a Board meeting every month.
But do they all attend a board meeting every month and if so, what skills are each of them bringing to the table? And why are there no independent non execs in the board? As the councillors will not be independent despite their own best endeavours as they will want to please their constituents . The fact remains that this company is in decline. There has been a considerable amount of reduction in funding via the fuel rebate from government and via the council ( direct result of reduced government funding ) and that is fact, but what has the collective board of directors done to address this? (70% being elected councillors). And why has the Chairperson remained unchanged? This company clearly needs a new direction and new leadership to save it.
[quote][p][bold]Cllr Russ Bowden[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]stewlycoscom[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]John says[/bold] wrote: 50% increase in monthly bus pass is obscene when most of warringtons working class have not had a pay rise for years . They want sacking and replaced by another company I for one will be taking my car test very soon hope they rot in hell Ps I believe the boss is in his villa in Florida sunning his greedy @r5e[/p][/quote]However bad you think the employees are I can assure you those at the bottom of the food chain in WBT have had 1% rise last year and 2% rise this year so where the other 47% has gone is only a matter of speculation. I certainly wouldn't like any of them to "rot in hell" for a 3% rise whilst the board of councillors (thats right they have a whole board) sit on fat tasty retainers for chairing 5 meetings a year all on public money.[/p][/quote]The Network Warrington board includes non-executive directors that are Councillors drawn from across the parties. They get zero recompense for their time and effort. They also attend a Board meeting every month.[/p][/quote]But do they all attend a board meeting every month and if so, what skills are each of them bringing to the table? And why are there no independent non execs in the board? As the councillors will not be independent despite their own best endeavours as they will want to please their constituents . The fact remains that this company is in decline. There has been a considerable amount of reduction in funding via the fuel rebate from government and via the council ( direct result of reduced government funding ) and that is fact, but what has the collective board of directors done to address this? (70% being elected councillors). And why has the Chairperson remained unchanged? This company clearly needs a new direction and new leadership to save it. JonnyV
  • Score: 14

11:55pm Fri 15 Aug 14

JonnyV says...

And why is the MD on holidays whilst this is happening?The announcement should have been made before his holidays so that he would be there to answer questions and in effect, face the music. Reeks of cowardice and ineffective leadership - did "the board" approve this? If so, these councillors need replacing.
This company is clearly not being ran as a private company in the true sense of the word but as a committee. What hope have the executive directors have v 7 councillors? They can be out votes every time.
And why is the MD on holidays whilst this is happening?The announcement should have been made before his holidays so that he would be there to answer questions and in effect, face the music. Reeks of cowardice and ineffective leadership - did "the board" approve this? If so, these councillors need replacing. This company is clearly not being ran as a private company in the true sense of the word but as a committee. What hope have the executive directors have v 7 councillors? They can be out votes every time. JonnyV
  • Score: 16

11:58pm Fri 15 Aug 14

JonnyV says...

Cllr Russ Bowden wrote:
tojahejome wrote:
Dont blame the bus company, blame the council for the reduction is subsidy. The council say that they want people to use public transport, but in reality they want you to take you car in to town and pay the expensive parking fees. Why don;t the council ban the councillors for claiming taxi fares on expenses and make them use the bus to see how us mortals cope
Councillors do not claim taxi fares on expenses - they are given a flat rate for travel within the Borough. That applies for car, bus or taxi - and plenty of Councillors use the local bus network.
All councillors on WBT board get FREE bus passes for themselves and their spouse / partner so there is no need for any expenses to be paid by the council or WBT
[quote][p][bold]Cllr Russ Bowden[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tojahejome[/bold] wrote: Dont blame the bus company, blame the council for the reduction is subsidy. The council say that they want people to use public transport, but in reality they want you to take you car in to town and pay the expensive parking fees. Why don;t the council ban the councillors for claiming taxi fares on expenses and make them use the bus to see how us mortals cope[/p][/quote]Councillors do not claim taxi fares on expenses - they are given a flat rate for travel within the Borough. That applies for car, bus or taxi - and plenty of Councillors use the local bus network.[/p][/quote]All councillors on WBT board get FREE bus passes for themselves and their spouse / partner so there is no need for any expenses to be paid by the council or WBT JonnyV
  • Score: 11

3:03am Sat 16 Aug 14

WillieBob says...

Abba cars taxi's haven't increased fares in the town for over 5 years, and as a result business is booming. Bus fares have risen so much that Abba are now competing against buses.

Up to a mile for £2.50, even if there's 4 passengers, and only £4 for a 2 mile journey - I would imagine that the majority of bus rides within the town are around 2 miles. And you're getting door to door service.

Has anybody within WBT exec' ever considered something radical i.e reduce fares, kids for a flat rate 50p, realistically priced season passes and for god's sake simplify the amount of tickets/passes you offer.
Abba cars taxi's haven't increased fares in the town for over 5 years, and as a result business is booming. Bus fares have risen so much that Abba are now competing against buses. Up to a mile for £2.50, even if there's 4 passengers, and only £4 for a 2 mile journey - I would imagine that the majority of bus rides within the town are around 2 miles. And you're getting door to door service. Has anybody within WBT exec' ever considered something radical i.e reduce fares, kids for a flat rate 50p, realistically priced season passes and for god's sake simplify the amount of tickets/passes you offer. WillieBob
  • Score: 14

8:54am Sat 16 Aug 14

stewlycoscom says...

JonnyV wrote:
And why is the MD on holidays whilst this is happening?The announcement should have been made before his holidays so that he would be there to answer questions and in effect, face the music. Reeks of cowardice and ineffective leadership - did "the board" approve this? If so, these councillors need replacing.
This company is clearly not being ran as a private company in the true sense of the word but as a committee. What hope have the executive directors have v 7 councillors? They can be out votes every time.
Hit the nail square on the head. This is probably why we have seen 6 Managing directors in as many years because whenever one shows some independent thought they get 6 months gardening leave followed by some bull story about family commitments when in actual fact a quick search on 'linked in' shows that they have been working whith First bus for the majority of the time they have been missing in action. (This is what happened to Mr Squires)
[quote][p][bold]JonnyV[/bold] wrote: And why is the MD on holidays whilst this is happening?The announcement should have been made before his holidays so that he would be there to answer questions and in effect, face the music. Reeks of cowardice and ineffective leadership - did "the board" approve this? If so, these councillors need replacing. This company is clearly not being ran as a private company in the true sense of the word but as a committee. What hope have the executive directors have v 7 councillors? They can be out votes every time.[/p][/quote]Hit the nail square on the head. This is probably why we have seen 6 Managing directors in as many years because whenever one shows some independent thought they get 6 months gardening leave followed by some bull story about family commitments when in actual fact a quick search on 'linked in' shows that they have been working whith First bus for the majority of the time they have been missing in action. (This is what happened to Mr Squires) stewlycoscom
  • Score: 12

9:24am Sat 16 Aug 14

Rex Mundi says...

And which private companies are taking such radical steps? Most are now charging two-thirds fare for children let alone a cheap flat rate though Warrington is still half fare. As for an earlier comment, "As the councillors will not be independent despite their own best endeavours as they will want to please their constituents ", putting up bus fares is hardly likely to please anyone. I note that councillors in St Helens are not exactly delighted with Arriva's fares policy there.
And which private companies are taking such radical steps? Most are now charging two-thirds fare for children let alone a cheap flat rate though Warrington is still half fare. As for an earlier comment, "As the councillors will not be independent despite their own best endeavours as they will want to please their constituents ", putting up bus fares is hardly likely to please anyone. I note that councillors in St Helens are not exactly delighted with Arriva's fares policy there. Rex Mundi
  • Score: -8

12:19pm Sat 16 Aug 14

WillieBob says...

But St Helens council has zero say over the running of Arriva.

The radical step taken was when Fairbrother (or whoever runs the alternative local services) first started up, they charged a flat £1 to attract customers. Now they are more established they pitch their prices just below those which WBT charge, it's what private companies do in order to maximize profits. There's no such onus on WBT to make profits, so if they played them at their own game, even with a flat 50p kids ticket, they would not only attract customers back from Fairbrother but also away from taxi's.

WBT should be wiping the floor when it comes to local transport, but so long as the council has any say in it's running it will continue to lurch from one price and service cut to another.
But St Helens council has zero say over the running of Arriva. The radical step taken was when Fairbrother (or whoever runs the alternative local services) first started up, they charged a flat £1 to attract customers. Now they are more established they pitch their prices just below those which WBT charge, it's what private companies do in order to maximize profits. There's no such onus on WBT to make profits, so if they played them at their own game, even with a flat 50p kids ticket, they would not only attract customers back from Fairbrother but also away from taxi's. WBT should be wiping the floor when it comes to local transport, but so long as the council has any say in it's running it will continue to lurch from one price and service cut to another. WillieBob
  • Score: 10

4:08pm Sat 16 Aug 14

fattyles says...

How can the Warrington guardian criticize network warrington when they increased the price of their paper from 65p to a pound
How can the Warrington guardian criticize network warrington when they increased the price of their paper from 65p to a pound fattyles
  • Score: 11

5:05pm Sat 16 Aug 14

Rex Mundi says...

WillieBob wrote:
But St Helens council has zero say over the running of Arriva.

The radical step taken was when Fairbrother (or whoever runs the alternative local services) first started up, they charged a flat £1 to attract customers. Now they are more established they pitch their prices just below those which WBT charge, it's what private companies do in order to maximize profits. There's no such onus on WBT to make profits, so if they played them at their own game, even with a flat 50p kids ticket, they would not only attract customers back from Fairbrother but also away from taxi's.

WBT should be wiping the floor when it comes to local transport, but so long as the council has any say in it's running it will continue to lurch from one price and service cut to another.
The point is that some on here think the service would be better in Warrington run by a private company, but St Helens councillors are not happy with the fares charged by a private company. I'm not sure Warrington Council has that much say over the running of Network Warrington anyway - it's an "arm's length" company. And the ideas for cheaper tickets don't make financial sense - cut fares by half and you'd need twice as many passengers to break even, and I take it that "to keep the company sustainable" means it has at least to break even.
[quote][p][bold]WillieBob[/bold] wrote: But St Helens council has zero say over the running of Arriva. The radical step taken was when Fairbrother (or whoever runs the alternative local services) first started up, they charged a flat £1 to attract customers. Now they are more established they pitch their prices just below those which WBT charge, it's what private companies do in order to maximize profits. There's no such onus on WBT to make profits, so if they played them at their own game, even with a flat 50p kids ticket, they would not only attract customers back from Fairbrother but also away from taxi's. WBT should be wiping the floor when it comes to local transport, but so long as the council has any say in it's running it will continue to lurch from one price and service cut to another.[/p][/quote]The point is that some on here think the service would be better in Warrington run by a private company, but St Helens councillors are not happy with the fares charged by a private company. I'm not sure Warrington Council has that much say over the running of Network Warrington anyway - it's an "arm's length" company. And the ideas for cheaper tickets don't make financial sense - cut fares by half and you'd need twice as many passengers to break even, and I take it that "to keep the company sustainable" means it has at least to break even. Rex Mundi
  • Score: 6

6:03pm Sat 16 Aug 14

JonnyV says...

Rex Mundi wrote:
WillieBob wrote:
But St Helens council has zero say over the running of Arriva.

The radical step taken was when Fairbrother (or whoever runs the alternative local services) first started up, they charged a flat £1 to attract customers. Now they are more established they pitch their prices just below those which WBT charge, it's what private companies do in order to maximize profits. There's no such onus on WBT to make profits, so if they played them at their own game, even with a flat 50p kids ticket, they would not only attract customers back from Fairbrother but also away from taxi's.

WBT should be wiping the floor when it comes to local transport, but so long as the council has any say in it's running it will continue to lurch from one price and service cut to another.
The point is that some on here think the service would be better in Warrington run by a private company, but St Helens councillors are not happy with the fares charged by a private company. I'm not sure Warrington Council has that much say over the running of Network Warrington anyway - it's an "arm's length" company. And the ideas for cheaper tickets don't make financial sense - cut fares by half and you'd need twice as many passengers to break even, and I take it that "to keep the company sustainable" means it has at least to break even.
Agree completely about the cheaper fares as it wouldn't make financial sense but the risk here is that these huge price rises will push existing passengers off the bus leading to less income for WBT. In addition if those passengers chose to go into a car, the result will be more congestion which will in turn slow the buses down, this then will have to leave to further route changes so that the company can run reliably timed services.
It just seems like a no win situation and a very concerning one at that for a company which has been part if the town for a very long time and an employer of generations of families.
This thread is, of course, about the fare hike which is ridiculous but what if the company is sold, how many job losses will there be as a company coming in won't run the same level of service
[quote][p][bold]Rex Mundi[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]WillieBob[/bold] wrote: But St Helens council has zero say over the running of Arriva. The radical step taken was when Fairbrother (or whoever runs the alternative local services) first started up, they charged a flat £1 to attract customers. Now they are more established they pitch their prices just below those which WBT charge, it's what private companies do in order to maximize profits. There's no such onus on WBT to make profits, so if they played them at their own game, even with a flat 50p kids ticket, they would not only attract customers back from Fairbrother but also away from taxi's. WBT should be wiping the floor when it comes to local transport, but so long as the council has any say in it's running it will continue to lurch from one price and service cut to another.[/p][/quote]The point is that some on here think the service would be better in Warrington run by a private company, but St Helens councillors are not happy with the fares charged by a private company. I'm not sure Warrington Council has that much say over the running of Network Warrington anyway - it's an "arm's length" company. And the ideas for cheaper tickets don't make financial sense - cut fares by half and you'd need twice as many passengers to break even, and I take it that "to keep the company sustainable" means it has at least to break even.[/p][/quote]Agree completely about the cheaper fares as it wouldn't make financial sense but the risk here is that these huge price rises will push existing passengers off the bus leading to less income for WBT. In addition if those passengers chose to go into a car, the result will be more congestion which will in turn slow the buses down, this then will have to leave to further route changes so that the company can run reliably timed services. It just seems like a no win situation and a very concerning one at that for a company which has been part if the town for a very long time and an employer of generations of families. This thread is, of course, about the fare hike which is ridiculous but what if the company is sold, how many job losses will there be as a company coming in won't run the same level of service JonnyV
  • Score: 5

6:18pm Sat 16 Aug 14

Mr_Vegas says...

Rex Mundi wrote:
WillieBob wrote:
But St Helens council has zero say over the running of Arriva.

The radical step taken was when Fairbrother (or whoever runs the alternative local services) first started up, they charged a flat £1 to attract customers. Now they are more established they pitch their prices just below those which WBT charge, it's what private companies do in order to maximize profits. There's no such onus on WBT to make profits, so if they played them at their own game, even with a flat 50p kids ticket, they would not only attract customers back from Fairbrother but also away from taxi's.

WBT should be wiping the floor when it comes to local transport, but so long as the council has any say in it's running it will continue to lurch from one price and service cut to another.
The point is that some on here think the service would be better in Warrington run by a private company, but St Helens councillors are not happy with the fares charged by a private company. I'm not sure Warrington Council has that much say over the running of Network Warrington anyway - it's an "arm's length" company. And the ideas for cheaper tickets don't make financial sense - cut fares by half and you'd need twice as many passengers to break even, and I take it that "to keep the company sustainable" means it has at least to break even.
Well said
[quote][p][bold]Rex Mundi[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]WillieBob[/bold] wrote: But St Helens council has zero say over the running of Arriva. The radical step taken was when Fairbrother (or whoever runs the alternative local services) first started up, they charged a flat £1 to attract customers. Now they are more established they pitch their prices just below those which WBT charge, it's what private companies do in order to maximize profits. There's no such onus on WBT to make profits, so if they played them at their own game, even with a flat 50p kids ticket, they would not only attract customers back from Fairbrother but also away from taxi's. WBT should be wiping the floor when it comes to local transport, but so long as the council has any say in it's running it will continue to lurch from one price and service cut to another.[/p][/quote]The point is that some on here think the service would be better in Warrington run by a private company, but St Helens councillors are not happy with the fares charged by a private company. I'm not sure Warrington Council has that much say over the running of Network Warrington anyway - it's an "arm's length" company. And the ideas for cheaper tickets don't make financial sense - cut fares by half and you'd need twice as many passengers to break even, and I take it that "to keep the company sustainable" means it has at least to break even.[/p][/quote]Well said Mr_Vegas
  • Score: 6

6:19pm Sat 16 Aug 14

Mr_Vegas says...

JonnyV wrote:
Rex Mundi wrote:
WillieBob wrote:
But St Helens council has zero say over the running of Arriva.

The radical step taken was when Fairbrother (or whoever runs the alternative local services) first started up, they charged a flat £1 to attract customers. Now they are more established they pitch their prices just below those which WBT charge, it's what private companies do in order to maximize profits. There's no such onus on WBT to make profits, so if they played them at their own game, even with a flat 50p kids ticket, they would not only attract customers back from Fairbrother but also away from taxi's.

WBT should be wiping the floor when it comes to local transport, but so long as the council has any say in it's running it will continue to lurch from one price and service cut to another.
The point is that some on here think the service would be better in Warrington run by a private company, but St Helens councillors are not happy with the fares charged by a private company. I'm not sure Warrington Council has that much say over the running of Network Warrington anyway - it's an "arm's length" company. And the ideas for cheaper tickets don't make financial sense - cut fares by half and you'd need twice as many passengers to break even, and I take it that "to keep the company sustainable" means it has at least to break even.
Agree completely about the cheaper fares as it wouldn't make financial sense but the risk here is that these huge price rises will push existing passengers off the bus leading to less income for WBT. In addition if those passengers chose to go into a car, the result will be more congestion which will in turn slow the buses down, this then will have to leave to further route changes so that the company can run reliably timed services.
It just seems like a no win situation and a very concerning one at that for a company which has been part if the town for a very long time and an employer of generations of families.
This thread is, of course, about the fare hike which is ridiculous but what if the company is sold, how many job losses will there be as a company coming in won't run the same level of service
A good point about jobs
[quote][p][bold]JonnyV[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rex Mundi[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]WillieBob[/bold] wrote: But St Helens council has zero say over the running of Arriva. The radical step taken was when Fairbrother (or whoever runs the alternative local services) first started up, they charged a flat £1 to attract customers. Now they are more established they pitch their prices just below those which WBT charge, it's what private companies do in order to maximize profits. There's no such onus on WBT to make profits, so if they played them at their own game, even with a flat 50p kids ticket, they would not only attract customers back from Fairbrother but also away from taxi's. WBT should be wiping the floor when it comes to local transport, but so long as the council has any say in it's running it will continue to lurch from one price and service cut to another.[/p][/quote]The point is that some on here think the service would be better in Warrington run by a private company, but St Helens councillors are not happy with the fares charged by a private company. I'm not sure Warrington Council has that much say over the running of Network Warrington anyway - it's an "arm's length" company. And the ideas for cheaper tickets don't make financial sense - cut fares by half and you'd need twice as many passengers to break even, and I take it that "to keep the company sustainable" means it has at least to break even.[/p][/quote]Agree completely about the cheaper fares as it wouldn't make financial sense but the risk here is that these huge price rises will push existing passengers off the bus leading to less income for WBT. In addition if those passengers chose to go into a car, the result will be more congestion which will in turn slow the buses down, this then will have to leave to further route changes so that the company can run reliably timed services. It just seems like a no win situation and a very concerning one at that for a company which has been part if the town for a very long time and an employer of generations of families. This thread is, of course, about the fare hike which is ridiculous but what if the company is sold, how many job losses will there be as a company coming in won't run the same level of service[/p][/quote]A good point about jobs Mr_Vegas
  • Score: 7

6:58pm Sat 16 Aug 14

stewlycoscom says...

When stagecoach took over first bus in wigan they offered redundancies as a last resort by sending staff to other depots. Now it is a fact that network warrington have already made redundant several background staff and are now asking for driver redundancies. I think I'd rather take my chances with a bigger company taking over than the status quo
When stagecoach took over first bus in wigan they offered redundancies as a last resort by sending staff to other depots. Now it is a fact that network warrington have already made redundant several background staff and are now asking for driver redundancies. I think I'd rather take my chances with a bigger company taking over than the status quo stewlycoscom
  • Score: 11

7:48am Sun 17 Aug 14

Rex Mundi says...

The government seems to have given up on its green agenda, so reducing the fuel rebate to buses has put up fares. Some passengers will be priced off the bus which may result in more car use and more congestion. Of course congestion costs money too, so it does seem counterproductive.

I think a private company coming in might try and cut wages rather than jobs. I get the impression Farebrothers pay their drivers rather less than Network Warrington.
The government seems to have given up on its green agenda, so reducing the fuel rebate to buses has put up fares. Some passengers will be priced off the bus which may result in more car use and more congestion. Of course congestion costs money too, so it does seem counterproductive. I think a private company coming in might try and cut wages rather than jobs. I get the impression Farebrothers pay their drivers rather less than Network Warrington. Rex Mundi
  • Score: 5

7:44pm Sun 17 Aug 14

Nick 1208 says...

A private company, probably meaning one of the large groups, would both cut services and offer reduced rates of pay. And along with that, fares would probably need to be increased yet again. It seems ironic to me that the Council seems to think it has green credentials, whereas in reality the opposite appears to be the case. Why does the Council, and its employees, allow companies to set up car parks in the town centre which charge £2.20 or £2.60 for all day parking? It's a no-brainer - who is going to pay a £4 odd return bus fare when they can park the car for just over half the cost? No wonder the roads into town are chock-a-block in the morning peak, and the same out of town in the evening. Get a grip of planning in the town and reduce congestion - it's up to the Council to do this, and then usage of Network Warrington buses, which are of course owned by the Council, will increase. The Council has a potentially valuable asset which it is neglecting through its own actions
A private company, probably meaning one of the large groups, would both cut services and offer reduced rates of pay. And along with that, fares would probably need to be increased yet again. It seems ironic to me that the Council seems to think it has green credentials, whereas in reality the opposite appears to be the case. Why does the Council, and its employees, allow companies to set up car parks in the town centre which charge £2.20 or £2.60 for all day parking? It's a no-brainer - who is going to pay a £4 odd return bus fare when they can park the car for just over half the cost? No wonder the roads into town are chock-a-block in the morning peak, and the same out of town in the evening. Get a grip of planning in the town and reduce congestion - it's up to the Council to do this, and then usage of Network Warrington buses, which are of course owned by the Council, will increase. The Council has a potentially valuable asset which it is neglecting through its own actions Nick 1208
  • Score: 5

3:57pm Mon 18 Aug 14

Zenith77 says...

I actually feel sorry for the bus drivers though, they are the ones dealing with the backlash from the public, and yet they never wanted these price rises. I think the fare increases are totally out of order, and ridiculously over the top. I think people could have tolerated a 1 to 2% increase but this increase is unfair and unjust. I really hope the increases are reconsidered.
I actually feel sorry for the bus drivers though, they are the ones dealing with the backlash from the public, and yet they never wanted these price rises. I think the fare increases are totally out of order, and ridiculously over the top. I think people could have tolerated a 1 to 2% increase but this increase is unfair and unjust. I really hope the increases are reconsidered. Zenith77
  • Score: 2

4:10pm Mon 18 Aug 14

ninearches says...

I must say that some of the Arriva buses are old, shabby & noisy with the best buses being used in Liverpool. They are not a patch on the quality of WBT buses.
I must say that some of the Arriva buses are old, shabby & noisy with the best buses being used in Liverpool. They are not a patch on the quality of WBT buses. ninearches
  • Score: 2

6:28pm Mon 18 Aug 14

toffeeman_4ever says...

(1) A taxi is cheaper
(2) When did wages go by 65%?
(3) Why has the service provided got less and less?
(4) Don't tell me fuel costs more as it has not risen in 12 months and stabilised.
(5) Are they trying to price families out of sending their children to college?
(6) A taxi is still cheaper!!!!!
(1) A taxi is cheaper (2) When did wages go by 65%? (3) Why has the service provided got less and less? (4) Don't tell me fuel costs more as it has not risen in 12 months and stabilised. (5) Are they trying to price families out of sending their children to college? (6) A taxi is still cheaper!!!!! toffeeman_4ever
  • Score: 4

3:59pm Tue 19 Aug 14

thatracoonstolemybacon says...

I have just seen the renewed prices for the touch & go bus pass, and I am fuming! I travel in and around the Warrington Area and I am being ripped off by this ridiculous price hike. It's a shame that you fail to set the prices by your standards as a company. If you did you would be lowering them instead of putting them up. The buses are never on time. the drivers are rude. The buses and unclean and dirty , often smelling of urine. It's a joke! I will no longer be using Warrington borough transport. I would rather walk than pay you my hard earned money to ride on dirty urine smelling buses.
I have just seen the renewed prices for the touch & go bus pass, and I am fuming! I travel in and around the Warrington Area and I am being ripped off by this ridiculous price hike. It's a shame that you fail to set the prices by your standards as a company. If you did you would be lowering them instead of putting them up. The buses are never on time. the drivers are rude. The buses and unclean and dirty , often smelling of urine. It's a joke! I will no longer be using Warrington borough transport. I would rather walk than pay you my hard earned money to ride on dirty urine smelling buses. thatracoonstolemybacon
  • Score: 0

7:55pm Tue 19 Aug 14

Rex Mundi says...

Never on time? You can't account for congestion, but the vast majority of buses leave the bus station on time. and if you're always smelling urine on Warrington Transport buses, I wonder whether you have a medical problem, or are just a WUM.
Never on time? You can't account for congestion, but the vast majority of buses leave the bus station on time. and if you're always smelling urine on Warrington Transport buses, I wonder whether you have a medical problem, or are just a WUM. Rex Mundi
  • Score: 0

1:04pm Thu 21 Aug 14

richiepooh says...

Cllr Russ Bowden wrote:
tojahejome wrote:
Dont blame the bus company, blame the council for the reduction is subsidy. The council say that they want people to use public transport, but in reality they want you to take you car in to town and pay the expensive parking fees. Why don;t the council ban the councillors for claiming taxi fares on expenses and make them use the bus to see how us mortals cope
Councillors do not claim taxi fares on expenses - they are given a flat rate for travel within the Borough. That applies for car, bus or taxi - and plenty of Councillors use the local bus network.
That would be the 45p per mile rate then?

Nice...unfortunately workers, students, pensioners, kids, unemployed don't get that recompense just you scrounging lot!

we have to pay for everything our selves so don't come on here spouting how hard done by you are your in the wrong pond mate!
[quote][p][bold]Cllr Russ Bowden[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tojahejome[/bold] wrote: Dont blame the bus company, blame the council for the reduction is subsidy. The council say that they want people to use public transport, but in reality they want you to take you car in to town and pay the expensive parking fees. Why don;t the council ban the councillors for claiming taxi fares on expenses and make them use the bus to see how us mortals cope[/p][/quote]Councillors do not claim taxi fares on expenses - they are given a flat rate for travel within the Borough. That applies for car, bus or taxi - and plenty of Councillors use the local bus network.[/p][/quote]That would be the 45p per mile rate then? Nice...unfortunately workers, students, pensioners, kids, unemployed don't get that recompense just you scrounging lot! we have to pay for everything our selves so don't come on here spouting how hard done by you are your in the wrong pond mate! richiepooh
  • Score: 1

10:55pm Thu 21 Aug 14

stewlycoscom says...

richiepooh wrote:
Cllr Russ Bowden wrote:
tojahejome wrote:
Dont blame the bus company, blame the council for the reduction is subsidy. The council say that they want people to use public transport, but in reality they want you to take you car in to town and pay the expensive parking fees. Why don;t the council ban the councillors for claiming taxi fares on expenses and make them use the bus to see how us mortals cope
Councillors do not claim taxi fares on expenses - they are given a flat rate for travel within the Borough. That applies for car, bus or taxi - and plenty of Councillors use the local bus network.
That would be the 45p per mile rate then?

Nice...unfortunately workers, students, pensioners, kids, unemployed don't get that recompense just you scrounging lot!

we have to pay for everything our selves so don't come on here spouting how hard done by you are your in the wrong pond mate!
Well said
[quote][p][bold]richiepooh[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cllr Russ Bowden[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tojahejome[/bold] wrote: Dont blame the bus company, blame the council for the reduction is subsidy. The council say that they want people to use public transport, but in reality they want you to take you car in to town and pay the expensive parking fees. Why don;t the council ban the councillors for claiming taxi fares on expenses and make them use the bus to see how us mortals cope[/p][/quote]Councillors do not claim taxi fares on expenses - they are given a flat rate for travel within the Borough. That applies for car, bus or taxi - and plenty of Councillors use the local bus network.[/p][/quote]That would be the 45p per mile rate then? Nice...unfortunately workers, students, pensioners, kids, unemployed don't get that recompense just you scrounging lot! we have to pay for everything our selves so don't come on here spouting how hard done by you are your in the wrong pond mate![/p][/quote]Well said stewlycoscom
  • Score: 0

7:17am Fri 22 Aug 14

Rex Mundi says...

richiepooh wrote:
Cllr Russ Bowden wrote:
tojahejome wrote:
Dont blame the bus company, blame the council for the reduction is subsidy. The council say that they want people to use public transport, but in reality they want you to take you car in to town and pay the expensive parking fees. Why don;t the council ban the councillors for claiming taxi fares on expenses and make them use the bus to see how us mortals cope
Councillors do not claim taxi fares on expenses - they are given a flat rate for travel within the Borough. That applies for car, bus or taxi - and plenty of Councillors use the local bus network.
That would be the 45p per mile rate then?

Nice...unfortunately workers, students, pensioners, kids, unemployed don't get that recompense just you scrounging lot!

we have to pay for everything our selves so don't come on here spouting how hard done by you are your in the wrong pond mate!
No, he means a flat rate, £243 a year, double for special responsibillty posts, for travel within the borough. http://tinyurl.com/l
jmmsqx (thanks icooke69!) They can spend that on a WBT bus pass if they want, otherwise it looks like they have to pay the normal bus fare. 45p for car travel outside the borough. Allowances the same since 2009.

Not much to do with the fare rises.
[quote][p][bold]richiepooh[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Cllr Russ Bowden[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tojahejome[/bold] wrote: Dont blame the bus company, blame the council for the reduction is subsidy. The council say that they want people to use public transport, but in reality they want you to take you car in to town and pay the expensive parking fees. Why don;t the council ban the councillors for claiming taxi fares on expenses and make them use the bus to see how us mortals cope[/p][/quote]Councillors do not claim taxi fares on expenses - they are given a flat rate for travel within the Borough. That applies for car, bus or taxi - and plenty of Councillors use the local bus network.[/p][/quote]That would be the 45p per mile rate then? Nice...unfortunately workers, students, pensioners, kids, unemployed don't get that recompense just you scrounging lot! we have to pay for everything our selves so don't come on here spouting how hard done by you are your in the wrong pond mate![/p][/quote]No, he means a flat rate, £243 a year, double for special responsibillty posts, for travel within the borough. http://tinyurl.com/l jmmsqx (thanks icooke69!) They can spend that on a WBT bus pass if they want, otherwise it looks like they have to pay the normal bus fare. 45p for car travel outside the borough. Allowances the same since 2009. Not much to do with the fare rises. Rex Mundi
  • Score: 0

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