Family of fatal crash victim say drivers should take more care around those on bikes

Family of fatal crash victim say drivers should take more care around those on bikes

Family of fatal crash victim say drivers should take more care around those on bikes

First published in News

THE family of a Great Sankey father-of-three killed in a fatal collision are calling for drivers to take care around cyclists.

Terry Brown, aged 47, of Virginia Gardens, Great Sankey, died from head injuries after being involved in a crash with a car on Warrington Road, Bold Heath, on February 18.

Following his death, brother David Brown, aged 46, said he wants drivers to heed the tragic accident as a warning to be cyclist aware.

“We don’t want Terry’s death to be in vain,” said David, who rushed over from his home in Australia after hearing news of the collision.

The extent of brain injuries suffered by his brother meant he arrived too late.

“We want people to be aware of cyclists and the dangers they face on the road.

“They have just as much right to be on the road as anyone else.

“The idea drivers have more right is wrong.

“If another incident like Terry’s death can be prevented, then it won’t have been in vain.”

Terry was described as ‘fun loving, a man who only wanted to help other people’, by family, who believed he would pull through until the end because of his high levels of fitness.

The keen cyclist, who was a member of North Cheshire Clarion Cycling Club, had lived in Warrington for 12 years, based in Lymm, before moving to Great Sankey.

Family said Terry’s three children, Anthony, aged 25, Francesca, aged 15, and Luke, aged 13, are still coming to terms with his death.

Sister Nicola Keatley, aged 41, from Prestwich, recalled how he always called her ‘Little Sis’ and was best man at her wedding.

She called him Peter Pan because he appeared younger than his age.

“He had fantastic morals, and when showing his crazy side he was like Peter Pan to me, a brilliant big brother” said Mrs Keatley.

Brother David would spend weeks exploring Australia with Terry, including scuba diving on the Great Barrier Reef.

He added: “He was a dedicated father and fun-loving guy, who cherished his family life.

“We got to see these sights and forge incredible memories.

“It’s those memories that keep you going and you look back on now.”

Born in Salford, he loved sport, supported Manchester United, and played table tennis in the Warrington and District League.

He would often cycle to work in Liverpool as packing manager at Princes Food.

Dad David Brown, aged 70, from Prestwich, said: “Terry gave everything 100 per cent and did it with enthusiasm.

“He tried to achieve the highest in everything he did, he loved sport and was so competitive.”

Mum Ellen, aged 66, from Prestwich, said: “He was such a fun person to have around, and we will really miss him.”

 

The funeral of Terry Brown takes place at St Mary’s Church in Prestwich on Friday.

Family have asked non-relatives to donate to brain injury charity Headway in Terry’s memory.

To do so go to a tribute page terry.brown.muchloved.com.

A 38-YEAR-OLD man from Great Sankey has been bailed following the collision on Warrington Road.

He was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving.

An investigation by Merseyside Police's roads policing department and St Helens CID remains ongoing.

Comments (18)

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10:11am Thu 6 Mar 14

old-codger says...

Both drivers and cyclists need to be more aware of their surroundings, A little care and attention to other road users is a main priority, Its very sad when it ends in a death that could have been avoided, My condolences to the family.
Both drivers and cyclists need to be more aware of their surroundings, A little care and attention to other road users is a main priority, Its very sad when it ends in a death that could have been avoided, My condolences to the family. old-codger
  • Score: 19

11:12am Thu 6 Mar 14

jdow says...

You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike
You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike jdow
  • Score: -9

12:04pm Thu 6 Mar 14

Nick Tessla says...

jdow wrote:
You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike
I don't think Old Codger was calling all cyclists.
[quote][p][bold]jdow[/bold] wrote: You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike[/p][/quote]I don't think Old Codger was calling all cyclists. Nick Tessla
  • Score: 16

1:24pm Thu 6 Mar 14

MikeJT says...

I cycle and drive. As a result I am aware of the dangers a car can pose, and also aware of the amount of room I should afford cyclist. I am also unfortunately aware of the idiotic antics that give both sets of road users a bad name and which wind up the other.
I cycle and drive. As a result I am aware of the dangers a car can pose, and also aware of the amount of room I should afford cyclist. I am also unfortunately aware of the idiotic antics that give both sets of road users a bad name and which wind up the other. MikeJT
  • Score: 7

1:51pm Thu 6 Mar 14

jdow says...

Nick Tessla wrote:
jdow wrote:
You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike
I don't think Old Codger was calling all cyclists.
I was just getting a point over that cars pull out of side rd thinking they can beat a bike please wait till we have past if your in a hurry leave early.also cars ride to near to you.we need cycle lanes all along Manchester rd or any other main rd
[quote][p][bold]Nick Tessla[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jdow[/bold] wrote: You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike[/p][/quote]I don't think Old Codger was calling all cyclists.[/p][/quote]I was just getting a point over that cars pull out of side rd thinking they can beat a bike please wait till we have past if your in a hurry leave early.also cars ride to near to you.we need cycle lanes all along Manchester rd or any other main rd jdow
  • Score: -5

2:59pm Thu 6 Mar 14

fedster says...

jdow wrote:
Nick Tessla wrote:
jdow wrote:
You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike
I don't think Old Codger was calling all cyclists.
I was just getting a point over that cars pull out of side rd thinking they can beat a bike please wait till we have past if your in a hurry leave early.also cars ride to near to you.we need cycle lanes all along Manchester rd or any other main rd
i think if you have used cycles or motorbikes as a youngster or your family and friends do you tend to be a bit more aware.

but to be fair some cyclist do think they own the road riding 3 a breast for safety they say no lights and no helmet.

i think if all road users just used a tiny bit of patience the roads would be safer.

Maybe if they used the resources to build safer paths for cyclist in areas where they are needed and not 50 or 20 yard bike paths at junctions in town.

like on sankey way and manchester road i think any road or duel carriageway with a speed of maybe 40mph or more should have more protection for cyclist.

And i think all cyclist Should have some sort of 3rd party insurance
i think thats where the line is in the sand to many road users saying cyclist should have to pay something towards the roads or even take a test similar to cbt (that all motorbike users have to pass)

but its like with most things it takes a tragic accident to improve things.
[quote][p][bold]jdow[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nick Tessla[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jdow[/bold] wrote: You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike[/p][/quote]I don't think Old Codger was calling all cyclists.[/p][/quote]I was just getting a point over that cars pull out of side rd thinking they can beat a bike please wait till we have past if your in a hurry leave early.also cars ride to near to you.we need cycle lanes all along Manchester rd or any other main rd[/p][/quote]i think if you have used cycles or motorbikes as a youngster or your family and friends do you tend to be a bit more aware. but to be fair some cyclist do think they own the road riding 3 a breast for safety they say no lights and no helmet. i think if all road users just used a tiny bit of patience the roads would be safer. Maybe if they used the resources to build safer paths for cyclist in areas where they are needed and not 50 or 20 yard bike paths at junctions in town. like on sankey way and manchester road i think any road or duel carriageway with a speed of maybe 40mph or more should have more protection for cyclist. And i think all cyclist Should have some sort of 3rd party insurance i think thats where the line is in the sand to many road users saying cyclist should have to pay something towards the roads or even take a test similar to cbt (that all motorbike users have to pass) but its like with most things it takes a tragic accident to improve things. fedster
  • Score: 8

3:10pm Thu 6 Mar 14

Nick Tessla says...

fedster wrote:
jdow wrote:
Nick Tessla wrote:
jdow wrote:
You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike
I don't think Old Codger was calling all cyclists.
I was just getting a point over that cars pull out of side rd thinking they can beat a bike please wait till we have past if your in a hurry leave early.also cars ride to near to you.we need cycle lanes all along Manchester rd or any other main rd
i think if you have used cycles or motorbikes as a youngster or your family and friends do you tend to be a bit more aware.

but to be fair some cyclist do think they own the road riding 3 a breast for safety they say no lights and no helmet.

i think if all road users just used a tiny bit of patience the roads would be safer.

Maybe if they used the resources to build safer paths for cyclist in areas where they are needed and not 50 or 20 yard bike paths at junctions in town.

like on sankey way and manchester road i think any road or duel carriageway with a speed of maybe 40mph or more should have more protection for cyclist.

And i think all cyclist Should have some sort of 3rd party insurance
i think thats where the line is in the sand to many road users saying cyclist should have to pay something towards the roads or even take a test similar to cbt (that all motorbike users have to pass)

but its like with most things it takes a tragic accident to improve things.
Motorists do not pay towards the roads, they are paid for out of general taxation so, as just about everyone pays direct and/or indirect taxation, they already contribute

If they were to be included in Vehicle Excise Duty then as a zero emissions vehicle the rate would be £0.
[quote][p][bold]fedster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jdow[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nick Tessla[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jdow[/bold] wrote: You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike[/p][/quote]I don't think Old Codger was calling all cyclists.[/p][/quote]I was just getting a point over that cars pull out of side rd thinking they can beat a bike please wait till we have past if your in a hurry leave early.also cars ride to near to you.we need cycle lanes all along Manchester rd or any other main rd[/p][/quote]i think if you have used cycles or motorbikes as a youngster or your family and friends do you tend to be a bit more aware. but to be fair some cyclist do think they own the road riding 3 a breast for safety they say no lights and no helmet. i think if all road users just used a tiny bit of patience the roads would be safer. Maybe if they used the resources to build safer paths for cyclist in areas where they are needed and not 50 or 20 yard bike paths at junctions in town. like on sankey way and manchester road i think any road or duel carriageway with a speed of maybe 40mph or more should have more protection for cyclist. And i think all cyclist Should have some sort of 3rd party insurance i think thats where the line is in the sand to many road users saying cyclist should have to pay something towards the roads or even take a test similar to cbt (that all motorbike users have to pass) but its like with most things it takes a tragic accident to improve things.[/p][/quote]Motorists do not pay towards the roads, they are paid for out of general taxation so, as just about everyone pays direct and/or indirect taxation, they already contribute If they were to be included in Vehicle Excise Duty then as a zero emissions vehicle the rate would be £0. Nick Tessla
  • Score: 3

3:23pm Thu 6 Mar 14

Sug says...

This is just an awful story to read and my heart goes out to the family, but I do agree that both cars and cyclists are equally to blame, not all but a minority. I have seen some absolutely horrible near misses and my heart was in my mouth on those occasions and thought for a second, what if! I too have had cyclists trying to get on the inside of me whilst I have been indicating, swerving in front of me, riding 2 abreast on busy roads (highway code does say single file) and various other tricks (followed by verbal abuse off them and various Victory V signs) when they are clearly in the wrong. I have also seen cars driving too close to cyclists and causing them problems. I actually witnessed a cyclist drive straight into the side of a stationary car and fly over the top of it, damaging the car considerably, luckily he wasn't seriously injured. He said he wasn't concentrating or looking!! Just one other thought maybe the car drivers who drive in "Cycle Lanes" could keep out of them and Cyclists who have a Cycle Lane provided for them could use them - everything goes both ways.
This is just an awful story to read and my heart goes out to the family, but I do agree that both cars and cyclists are equally to blame, not all but a minority. I have seen some absolutely horrible near misses and my heart was in my mouth on those occasions and thought for a second, what if! I too have had cyclists trying to get on the inside of me whilst I have been indicating, swerving in front of me, riding 2 abreast on busy roads (highway code does say single file) and various other tricks (followed by verbal abuse off them and various Victory V signs) when they are clearly in the wrong. I have also seen cars driving too close to cyclists and causing them problems. I actually witnessed a cyclist drive straight into the side of a stationary car and fly over the top of it, damaging the car considerably, luckily he wasn't seriously injured. He said he wasn't concentrating or looking!! Just one other thought maybe the car drivers who drive in "Cycle Lanes" could keep out of them and Cyclists who have a Cycle Lane provided for them could use them - everything goes both ways. Sug
  • Score: 9

4:25pm Thu 6 Mar 14

fedster says...

Nick Tessla wrote:
fedster wrote:
jdow wrote:
Nick Tessla wrote:
jdow wrote:
You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike
I don't think Old Codger was calling all cyclists.
I was just getting a point over that cars pull out of side rd thinking they can beat a bike please wait till we have past if your in a hurry leave early.also cars ride to near to you.we need cycle lanes all along Manchester rd or any other main rd
i think if you have used cycles or motorbikes as a youngster or your family and friends do you tend to be a bit more aware.

but to be fair some cyclist do think they own the road riding 3 a breast for safety they say no lights and no helmet.

i think if all road users just used a tiny bit of patience the roads would be safer.

Maybe if they used the resources to build safer paths for cyclist in areas where they are needed and not 50 or 20 yard bike paths at junctions in town.

like on sankey way and manchester road i think any road or duel carriageway with a speed of maybe 40mph or more should have more protection for cyclist.

And i think all cyclist Should have some sort of 3rd party insurance
i think thats where the line is in the sand to many road users saying cyclist should have to pay something towards the roads or even take a test similar to cbt (that all motorbike users have to pass)

but its like with most things it takes a tragic accident to improve things.
Motorists do not pay towards the roads, they are paid for out of general taxation so, as just about everyone pays direct and/or indirect taxation, they already contribute

If they were to be included in Vehicle Excise Duty then as a zero emissions vehicle the rate would be £0.
well true the road tax is now a tax disc (vehicle license) so why dont they need one of them to identify the cycle ?
at the end of the day a vehicle is

1.
a thing used for transporting people or goods, especially on land, such as a car, lorry, or cart.

why does a cart get in their but not a cycle
and what about insurance nick ?

a cyclist can claim of your insurance but who do you claim of .

and didn't see you comment about a cbt type test for cyclist. Not sure if i remember well enough but back in junior school (black and white days now) Those with cycles could do a small test within the school to make traveling safer. indicating looking over shoulder and observation, ive seen it once near bewsey recently, but no where else

here in warrington its only a small number of cyclist i see with lights helmet and other protective gear on. again there needs to be more done on both sides. and i think the earlier you teach the better as most of the cyclist i see now during the day time are the bmx bandits and stunt bike teens on way to one of the courses in warrington (most kids stunt bikes have NO BRAKES) which is madness



but lets not forget its MANDATORY for any car or motorbike to be insured taxed and MOT, to be on the road. Now they have been working for a few years now to produce some sort of identity tags for cycle but it all comes down to how easy it is to walk off with a bike or the tag.

but no doubt the minute the government thinks it can earn some cash from cyclist it will go crazy.
[quote][p][bold]Nick Tessla[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]fedster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jdow[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nick Tessla[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jdow[/bold] wrote: You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike[/p][/quote]I don't think Old Codger was calling all cyclists.[/p][/quote]I was just getting a point over that cars pull out of side rd thinking they can beat a bike please wait till we have past if your in a hurry leave early.also cars ride to near to you.we need cycle lanes all along Manchester rd or any other main rd[/p][/quote]i think if you have used cycles or motorbikes as a youngster or your family and friends do you tend to be a bit more aware. but to be fair some cyclist do think they own the road riding 3 a breast for safety they say no lights and no helmet. i think if all road users just used a tiny bit of patience the roads would be safer. Maybe if they used the resources to build safer paths for cyclist in areas where they are needed and not 50 or 20 yard bike paths at junctions in town. like on sankey way and manchester road i think any road or duel carriageway with a speed of maybe 40mph or more should have more protection for cyclist. And i think all cyclist Should have some sort of 3rd party insurance i think thats where the line is in the sand to many road users saying cyclist should have to pay something towards the roads or even take a test similar to cbt (that all motorbike users have to pass) but its like with most things it takes a tragic accident to improve things.[/p][/quote]Motorists do not pay towards the roads, they are paid for out of general taxation so, as just about everyone pays direct and/or indirect taxation, they already contribute If they were to be included in Vehicle Excise Duty then as a zero emissions vehicle the rate would be £0.[/p][/quote]well true the road tax is now a tax disc (vehicle license) so why dont they need one of them to identify the cycle ? at the end of the day a vehicle is 1. a thing used for transporting people or goods, especially on land, such as a car, lorry, or cart. why does a cart get in their but not a cycle and what about insurance nick ? a cyclist can claim of your insurance but who do you claim of . and didn't see you comment about a cbt type test for cyclist. Not sure if i remember well enough but back in junior school (black and white days now) Those with cycles could do a small test within the school to make traveling safer. indicating looking over shoulder and observation, ive seen it once near bewsey recently, but no where else here in warrington its only a small number of cyclist i see with lights helmet and other protective gear on. again there needs to be more done on both sides. and i think the earlier you teach the better as most of the cyclist i see now during the day time are the bmx bandits and stunt bike teens on way to one of the courses in warrington (most kids stunt bikes have NO BRAKES) which is madness but lets not forget its MANDATORY for any car or motorbike to be insured taxed and MOT, to be on the road. Now they have been working for a few years now to produce some sort of identity tags for cycle but it all comes down to how easy it is to walk off with a bike or the tag. but no doubt the minute the government thinks it can earn some cash from cyclist it will go crazy. fedster
  • Score: -5

4:44pm Thu 6 Mar 14

Nick Tessla says...

fedster wrote:
Nick Tessla wrote:
fedster wrote:
jdow wrote:
Nick Tessla wrote:
jdow wrote:
You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike
I don't think Old Codger was calling all cyclists.
I was just getting a point over that cars pull out of side rd thinking they can beat a bike please wait till we have past if your in a hurry leave early.also cars ride to near to you.we need cycle lanes all along Manchester rd or any other main rd
i think if you have used cycles or motorbikes as a youngster or your family and friends do you tend to be a bit more aware.

but to be fair some cyclist do think they own the road riding 3 a breast for safety they say no lights and no helmet.

i think if all road users just used a tiny bit of patience the roads would be safer.

Maybe if they used the resources to build safer paths for cyclist in areas where they are needed and not 50 or 20 yard bike paths at junctions in town.

like on sankey way and manchester road i think any road or duel carriageway with a speed of maybe 40mph or more should have more protection for cyclist.

And i think all cyclist Should have some sort of 3rd party insurance
i think thats where the line is in the sand to many road users saying cyclist should have to pay something towards the roads or even take a test similar to cbt (that all motorbike users have to pass)

but its like with most things it takes a tragic accident to improve things.
Motorists do not pay towards the roads, they are paid for out of general taxation so, as just about everyone pays direct and/or indirect taxation, they already contribute

If they were to be included in Vehicle Excise Duty then as a zero emissions vehicle the rate would be £0.
well true the road tax is now a tax disc (vehicle license) so why dont they need one of them to identify the cycle ?
at the end of the day a vehicle is

1.
a thing used for transporting people or goods, especially on land, such as a car, lorry, or cart.

why does a cart get in their but not a cycle
and what about insurance nick ?

a cyclist can claim of your insurance but who do you claim of .

and didn't see you comment about a cbt type test for cyclist. Not sure if i remember well enough but back in junior school (black and white days now) Those with cycles could do a small test within the school to make traveling safer. indicating looking over shoulder and observation, ive seen it once near bewsey recently, but no where else

here in warrington its only a small number of cyclist i see with lights helmet and other protective gear on. again there needs to be more done on both sides. and i think the earlier you teach the better as most of the cyclist i see now during the day time are the bmx bandits and stunt bike teens on way to one of the courses in warrington (most kids stunt bikes have NO BRAKES) which is madness



but lets not forget its MANDATORY for any car or motorbike to be insured taxed and MOT, to be on the road. Now they have been working for a few years now to produce some sort of identity tags for cycle but it all comes down to how easy it is to walk off with a bike or the tag.

but no doubt the minute the government thinks it can earn some cash from cyclist it will go crazy.
I can see some merit in some form of ID system for pedal cycles (and those mobility scooters while you're at it) and, to a lesser extent, that insurance may be a good idea.

cbt ? - I remember taking the cycling proficiency test. A good idea to encourage such a scheme, but compulsory?

I started to ride a bike at primary school age - would you really want a licencing system for pre-teenage kids or kiddies tricycles.?

A lot of the problem is a question of existing laws being enforced - I am sure we've all seen, for example, the police (CSOs and PCs) blithely ignoring cyclists breaking the law (no lights, riding on the pavement etc) and , indeed breaking said laws themselves.
[quote][p][bold]fedster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nick Tessla[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]fedster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jdow[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nick Tessla[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jdow[/bold] wrote: You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike[/p][/quote]I don't think Old Codger was calling all cyclists.[/p][/quote]I was just getting a point over that cars pull out of side rd thinking they can beat a bike please wait till we have past if your in a hurry leave early.also cars ride to near to you.we need cycle lanes all along Manchester rd or any other main rd[/p][/quote]i think if you have used cycles or motorbikes as a youngster or your family and friends do you tend to be a bit more aware. but to be fair some cyclist do think they own the road riding 3 a breast for safety they say no lights and no helmet. i think if all road users just used a tiny bit of patience the roads would be safer. Maybe if they used the resources to build safer paths for cyclist in areas where they are needed and not 50 or 20 yard bike paths at junctions in town. like on sankey way and manchester road i think any road or duel carriageway with a speed of maybe 40mph or more should have more protection for cyclist. And i think all cyclist Should have some sort of 3rd party insurance i think thats where the line is in the sand to many road users saying cyclist should have to pay something towards the roads or even take a test similar to cbt (that all motorbike users have to pass) but its like with most things it takes a tragic accident to improve things.[/p][/quote]Motorists do not pay towards the roads, they are paid for out of general taxation so, as just about everyone pays direct and/or indirect taxation, they already contribute If they were to be included in Vehicle Excise Duty then as a zero emissions vehicle the rate would be £0.[/p][/quote]well true the road tax is now a tax disc (vehicle license) so why dont they need one of them to identify the cycle ? at the end of the day a vehicle is 1. a thing used for transporting people or goods, especially on land, such as a car, lorry, or cart. why does a cart get in their but not a cycle and what about insurance nick ? a cyclist can claim of your insurance but who do you claim of . and didn't see you comment about a cbt type test for cyclist. Not sure if i remember well enough but back in junior school (black and white days now) Those with cycles could do a small test within the school to make traveling safer. indicating looking over shoulder and observation, ive seen it once near bewsey recently, but no where else here in warrington its only a small number of cyclist i see with lights helmet and other protective gear on. again there needs to be more done on both sides. and i think the earlier you teach the better as most of the cyclist i see now during the day time are the bmx bandits and stunt bike teens on way to one of the courses in warrington (most kids stunt bikes have NO BRAKES) which is madness but lets not forget its MANDATORY for any car or motorbike to be insured taxed and MOT, to be on the road. Now they have been working for a few years now to produce some sort of identity tags for cycle but it all comes down to how easy it is to walk off with a bike or the tag. but no doubt the minute the government thinks it can earn some cash from cyclist it will go crazy.[/p][/quote]I can see some merit in some form of ID system for pedal cycles (and those mobility scooters while you're at it) and, to a lesser extent, that insurance may be a good idea. cbt ? - I remember taking the cycling proficiency test. A good idea to encourage such a scheme, but compulsory? I started to ride a bike at primary school age - would you really want a licencing system for pre-teenage kids or kiddies tricycles.? A lot of the problem is a question of existing laws being enforced - I am sure we've all seen, for example, the police (CSOs and PCs) blithely ignoring cyclists breaking the law (no lights, riding on the pavement etc) and , indeed breaking said laws themselves. Nick Tessla
  • Score: 6

10:06pm Thu 6 Mar 14

fedster says...

Nick Tessla wrote:
fedster wrote:
Nick Tessla wrote:
fedster wrote:
jdow wrote:
Nick Tessla wrote:
jdow wrote:
You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike
I don't think Old Codger was calling all cyclists.
I was just getting a point over that cars pull out of side rd thinking they can beat a bike please wait till we have past if your in a hurry leave early.also cars ride to near to you.we need cycle lanes all along Manchester rd or any other main rd
i think if you have used cycles or motorbikes as a youngster or your family and friends do you tend to be a bit more aware.

but to be fair some cyclist do think they own the road riding 3 a breast for safety they say no lights and no helmet.

i think if all road users just used a tiny bit of patience the roads would be safer.

Maybe if they used the resources to build safer paths for cyclist in areas where they are needed and not 50 or 20 yard bike paths at junctions in town.

like on sankey way and manchester road i think any road or duel carriageway with a speed of maybe 40mph or more should have more protection for cyclist.

And i think all cyclist Should have some sort of 3rd party insurance
i think thats where the line is in the sand to many road users saying cyclist should have to pay something towards the roads or even take a test similar to cbt (that all motorbike users have to pass)

but its like with most things it takes a tragic accident to improve things.
Motorists do not pay towards the roads, they are paid for out of general taxation so, as just about everyone pays direct and/or indirect taxation, they already contribute

If they were to be included in Vehicle Excise Duty then as a zero emissions vehicle the rate would be £0.
well true the road tax is now a tax disc (vehicle license) so why dont they need one of them to identify the cycle ?
at the end of the day a vehicle is

1.
a thing used for transporting people or goods, especially on land, such as a car, lorry, or cart.

why does a cart get in their but not a cycle
and what about insurance nick ?

a cyclist can claim of your insurance but who do you claim of .

and didn't see you comment about a cbt type test for cyclist. Not sure if i remember well enough but back in junior school (black and white days now) Those with cycles could do a small test within the school to make traveling safer. indicating looking over shoulder and observation, ive seen it once near bewsey recently, but no where else

here in warrington its only a small number of cyclist i see with lights helmet and other protective gear on. again there needs to be more done on both sides. and i think the earlier you teach the better as most of the cyclist i see now during the day time are the bmx bandits and stunt bike teens on way to one of the courses in warrington (most kids stunt bikes have NO BRAKES) which is madness



but lets not forget its MANDATORY for any car or motorbike to be insured taxed and MOT, to be on the road. Now they have been working for a few years now to produce some sort of identity tags for cycle but it all comes down to how easy it is to walk off with a bike or the tag.

but no doubt the minute the government thinks it can earn some cash from cyclist it will go crazy.
I can see some merit in some form of ID system for pedal cycles (and those mobility scooters while you're at it) and, to a lesser extent, that insurance may be a good idea.

cbt ? - I remember taking the cycling proficiency test. A good idea to encourage such a scheme, but compulsory?

I started to ride a bike at primary school age - would you really want a licencing system for pre-teenage kids or kiddies tricycles.?

A lot of the problem is a question of existing laws being enforced - I am sure we've all seen, for example, the police (CSOs and PCs) blithely ignoring cyclists breaking the law (no lights, riding on the pavement etc) and , indeed breaking said laws themselves.
the police are like aircraft investigators only do something after an incident.

i dont see why in this day and age with technology how they cant build the lights into bikes. I remember the good old dynamo on my striker and chopper.

i agree theres to many variables over the licensing the bikes and such but insurance you can pick up a know a few cyclist that have some sort of insurance for bumps and scrapes on other road users.

Again seems lessons learned in schools many years ago seem to have been swept aside. Even if you never use a bike after leaving school maybe it would leave and impression into their mind for driving.

Maybe some sort of highlighted part of hazard perception on the reason most cyclist navigate round the roads ie raised or lowered man holes (very slippery when wet) and road-bumps.

but top and bottom is people seem to drive like its the end of the world
[quote][p][bold]Nick Tessla[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]fedster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nick Tessla[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]fedster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jdow[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nick Tessla[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jdow[/bold] wrote: You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike[/p][/quote]I don't think Old Codger was calling all cyclists.[/p][/quote]I was just getting a point over that cars pull out of side rd thinking they can beat a bike please wait till we have past if your in a hurry leave early.also cars ride to near to you.we need cycle lanes all along Manchester rd or any other main rd[/p][/quote]i think if you have used cycles or motorbikes as a youngster or your family and friends do you tend to be a bit more aware. but to be fair some cyclist do think they own the road riding 3 a breast for safety they say no lights and no helmet. i think if all road users just used a tiny bit of patience the roads would be safer. Maybe if they used the resources to build safer paths for cyclist in areas where they are needed and not 50 or 20 yard bike paths at junctions in town. like on sankey way and manchester road i think any road or duel carriageway with a speed of maybe 40mph or more should have more protection for cyclist. And i think all cyclist Should have some sort of 3rd party insurance i think thats where the line is in the sand to many road users saying cyclist should have to pay something towards the roads or even take a test similar to cbt (that all motorbike users have to pass) but its like with most things it takes a tragic accident to improve things.[/p][/quote]Motorists do not pay towards the roads, they are paid for out of general taxation so, as just about everyone pays direct and/or indirect taxation, they already contribute If they were to be included in Vehicle Excise Duty then as a zero emissions vehicle the rate would be £0.[/p][/quote]well true the road tax is now a tax disc (vehicle license) so why dont they need one of them to identify the cycle ? at the end of the day a vehicle is 1. a thing used for transporting people or goods, especially on land, such as a car, lorry, or cart. why does a cart get in their but not a cycle and what about insurance nick ? a cyclist can claim of your insurance but who do you claim of . and didn't see you comment about a cbt type test for cyclist. Not sure if i remember well enough but back in junior school (black and white days now) Those with cycles could do a small test within the school to make traveling safer. indicating looking over shoulder and observation, ive seen it once near bewsey recently, but no where else here in warrington its only a small number of cyclist i see with lights helmet and other protective gear on. again there needs to be more done on both sides. and i think the earlier you teach the better as most of the cyclist i see now during the day time are the bmx bandits and stunt bike teens on way to one of the courses in warrington (most kids stunt bikes have NO BRAKES) which is madness but lets not forget its MANDATORY for any car or motorbike to be insured taxed and MOT, to be on the road. Now they have been working for a few years now to produce some sort of identity tags for cycle but it all comes down to how easy it is to walk off with a bike or the tag. but no doubt the minute the government thinks it can earn some cash from cyclist it will go crazy.[/p][/quote]I can see some merit in some form of ID system for pedal cycles (and those mobility scooters while you're at it) and, to a lesser extent, that insurance may be a good idea. cbt ? - I remember taking the cycling proficiency test. A good idea to encourage such a scheme, but compulsory? I started to ride a bike at primary school age - would you really want a licencing system for pre-teenage kids or kiddies tricycles.? A lot of the problem is a question of existing laws being enforced - I am sure we've all seen, for example, the police (CSOs and PCs) blithely ignoring cyclists breaking the law (no lights, riding on the pavement etc) and , indeed breaking said laws themselves.[/p][/quote]the police are like aircraft investigators only do something after an incident. i dont see why in this day and age with technology how they cant build the lights into bikes. I remember the good old dynamo on my striker and chopper. i agree theres to many variables over the licensing the bikes and such but insurance you can pick up a know a few cyclist that have some sort of insurance for bumps and scrapes on other road users. Again seems lessons learned in schools many years ago seem to have been swept aside. Even if you never use a bike after leaving school maybe it would leave and impression into their mind for driving. Maybe some sort of highlighted part of hazard perception on the reason most cyclist navigate round the roads ie raised or lowered man holes (very slippery when wet) and road-bumps. but top and bottom is people seem to drive like its the end of the world fedster
  • Score: 0

11:08pm Thu 6 Mar 14

voyager says...

For your information, the old cycling proficiency is now called bikeability and is taught in every school. My son has had it and the instructors took his class out onto the roads instead of staying in the playground. If you google bikeability you can see what its all about.
For your information, the old cycling proficiency is now called bikeability and is taught in every school. My son has had it and the instructors took his class out onto the roads instead of staying in the playground. If you google bikeability you can see what its all about. voyager
  • Score: 10

8:16am Fri 7 Mar 14

grahamwa3 says...

This story is very sad to read and I send my condolences to all this mans family and friends, but tragically alot of people will not heed this story as they think it will never happen to them or anyone that they know. You see every day on the roads that people drive to close to each other and are rushing to overtake cyclists and end up driving too close to them, but also cyclists have a responsability to other road users as well as themselves, just the other morning at 0530 on my way to work i pulled up to a t junction to turn left it was dark and dismal i looked to my right and then left as i was about to pull away a cyclist flashed passed me with no lights on dressed all in black. that was a wake up call if you need one. I cannot get my head round why for the sake of about £20 cyclists do not invest in a hi-vis and some lights, surely your life is worth that, by the way i was that wound up with this bloke i wanted to punch his lights out, but i thought well if i didn't get him someone else will soon. total lack of respect for some cyclists.
This story is very sad to read and I send my condolences to all this mans family and friends, but tragically alot of people will not heed this story as they think it will never happen to them or anyone that they know. You see every day on the roads that people drive to close to each other and are rushing to overtake cyclists and end up driving too close to them, but also cyclists have a responsability to other road users as well as themselves, just the other morning at 0530 on my way to work i pulled up to a t junction to turn left it was dark and dismal i looked to my right and then left as i was about to pull away a cyclist flashed passed me with no lights on dressed all in black. that was a wake up call if you need one. I cannot get my head round why for the sake of about £20 cyclists do not invest in a hi-vis and some lights, surely your life is worth that, by the way i was that wound up with this bloke i wanted to punch his lights out, but i thought well if i didn't get him someone else will soon. total lack of respect for some cyclists. grahamwa3
  • Score: 8

7:53pm Fri 7 Mar 14

old-codger says...

jdow wrote:
You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike
I wasn't calling cyclists, ???.
[quote][p][bold]jdow[/bold] wrote: You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike[/p][/quote]I wasn't calling cyclists, ???. old-codger
  • Score: 0

7:57pm Fri 7 Mar 14

old-codger says...

fedster wrote:
jdow wrote:
Nick Tessla wrote:
jdow wrote:
You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike
I don't think Old Codger was calling all cyclists.
I was just getting a point over that cars pull out of side rd thinking they can beat a bike please wait till we have past if your in a hurry leave early.also cars ride to near to you.we need cycle lanes all along Manchester rd or any other main rd
i think if you have used cycles or motorbikes as a youngster or your family and friends do you tend to be a bit more aware.

but to be fair some cyclist do think they own the road riding 3 a breast for safety they say no lights and no helmet.

i think if all road users just used a tiny bit of patience the roads would be safer.

Maybe if they used the resources to build safer paths for cyclist in areas where they are needed and not 50 or 20 yard bike paths at junctions in town.

like on sankey way and manchester road i think any road or duel carriageway with a speed of maybe 40mph or more should have more protection for cyclist.

And i think all cyclist Should have some sort of 3rd party insurance
i think thats where the line is in the sand to many road users saying cyclist should have to pay something towards the roads or even take a test similar to cbt (that all motorbike users have to pass)

but its like with most things it takes a tragic accident to improve things.
AGREED.....100%.
[quote][p][bold]fedster[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jdow[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Nick Tessla[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]jdow[/bold] wrote: You can't call all cyclist I was just on Manchester rd when a car pulled out of a SIDE street I had to brake and she didn't ever say sorry and her view wasn't blocked. And its not the first timed its happens to me so cars think bike[/p][/quote]I don't think Old Codger was calling all cyclists.[/p][/quote]I was just getting a point over that cars pull out of side rd thinking they can beat a bike please wait till we have past if your in a hurry leave early.also cars ride to near to you.we need cycle lanes all along Manchester rd or any other main rd[/p][/quote]i think if you have used cycles or motorbikes as a youngster or your family and friends do you tend to be a bit more aware. but to be fair some cyclist do think they own the road riding 3 a breast for safety they say no lights and no helmet. i think if all road users just used a tiny bit of patience the roads would be safer. Maybe if they used the resources to build safer paths for cyclist in areas where they are needed and not 50 or 20 yard bike paths at junctions in town. like on sankey way and manchester road i think any road or duel carriageway with a speed of maybe 40mph or more should have more protection for cyclist. And i think all cyclist Should have some sort of 3rd party insurance i think thats where the line is in the sand to many road users saying cyclist should have to pay something towards the roads or even take a test similar to cbt (that all motorbike users have to pass) but its like with most things it takes a tragic accident to improve things.[/p][/quote]AGREED.....100%. old-codger
  • Score: 4

8:05pm Fri 7 Mar 14

old-codger says...

grahamwa3 wrote:
This story is very sad to read and I send my condolences to all this mans family and friends, but tragically alot of people will not heed this story as they think it will never happen to them or anyone that they know. You see every day on the roads that people drive to close to each other and are rushing to overtake cyclists and end up driving too close to them, but also cyclists have a responsability to other road users as well as themselves, just the other morning at 0530 on my way to work i pulled up to a t junction to turn left it was dark and dismal i looked to my right and then left as i was about to pull away a cyclist flashed passed me with no lights on dressed all in black. that was a wake up call if you need one. I cannot get my head round why for the sake of about £20 cyclists do not invest in a hi-vis and some lights, surely your life is worth that, by the way i was that wound up with this bloke i wanted to punch his lights out, but i thought well if i didn't get him someone else will soon. total lack of respect for some cyclists.
You cant punch his lights out if he hasn't got any grahamwa3 :):):). But I know what you mean, ie knock some sense into them.
[quote][p][bold]grahamwa3[/bold] wrote: This story is very sad to read and I send my condolences to all this mans family and friends, but tragically alot of people will not heed this story as they think it will never happen to them or anyone that they know. You see every day on the roads that people drive to close to each other and are rushing to overtake cyclists and end up driving too close to them, but also cyclists have a responsability to other road users as well as themselves, just the other morning at 0530 on my way to work i pulled up to a t junction to turn left it was dark and dismal i looked to my right and then left as i was about to pull away a cyclist flashed passed me with no lights on dressed all in black. that was a wake up call if you need one. I cannot get my head round why for the sake of about £20 cyclists do not invest in a hi-vis and some lights, surely your life is worth that, by the way i was that wound up with this bloke i wanted to punch his lights out, but i thought well if i didn't get him someone else will soon. total lack of respect for some cyclists.[/p][/quote]You cant punch his lights out if he hasn't got any grahamwa3 :):):). But I know what you mean, ie knock some sense into them. old-codger
  • Score: 5

8:57am Tue 11 Mar 14

chumhill says...

I think the main thing here is that both parties pay attention to the road and rules and drivers give cyclists the room they need. Also cyclists shouldn't ride 2 or more abreast. Cyclists are certainly at a disadvantage here in terms of coming of worst in an accident but this also stresses the point that helmets are important and can prevent a lot of damage although some accidents are inevitable to cause severe damage if not death. My thoughts go out to the family who have lost a loved one.
I think the main thing here is that both parties pay attention to the road and rules and drivers give cyclists the room they need. Also cyclists shouldn't ride 2 or more abreast. Cyclists are certainly at a disadvantage here in terms of coming of worst in an accident but this also stresses the point that helmets are important and can prevent a lot of damage although some accidents are inevitable to cause severe damage if not death. My thoughts go out to the family who have lost a loved one. chumhill
  • Score: 0

11:13am Tue 11 Mar 14

HappyMisery says...

I believe that most of the issues in car vs bike is that many cyclists are car drivers who have simply bought a nice bike and some gear and have gone straight on the road. They haven't learned to position themselves correctly in the roads and don't think to check blind spots when they ride (swerving around grids) because you don't when driving a car.

One example. I witnessed one cyclist attempting to turn right in busy traffic, simply by signalling with his arm for a few seconds and pulling to the centre of the road as though he was in a car. The car behind him slammed on to avoid a collision, as did the car behind them. The cyclist then abused the drivers for the near collision. Had he followed the basic lesson that I was taught as a youngster (pull to the curb on the left until its safe to turn right) then this whole argument would have been avoided.

Drivers also need to compensate for errors of cyclists in the same way that they would for other drivers. No one is infallible and mistakes happen, and so for the sake of a few seconds patience, you could avoid a tragic situation which you must live with for the rest of your life.
I believe that most of the issues in car vs bike is that many cyclists are car drivers who have simply bought a nice bike and some gear and have gone straight on the road. They haven't learned to position themselves correctly in the roads and don't think to check blind spots when they ride (swerving around grids) because you don't when driving a car. One example. I witnessed one cyclist attempting to turn right in busy traffic, simply by signalling with his arm for a few seconds and pulling to the centre of the road as though he was in a car. The car behind him slammed on to avoid a collision, as did the car behind them. The cyclist then abused the drivers for the near collision. Had he followed the basic lesson that I was taught as a youngster (pull to the curb on the left until its safe to turn right) then this whole argument would have been avoided. Drivers also need to compensate for errors of cyclists in the same way that they would for other drivers. No one is infallible and mistakes happen, and so for the sake of a few seconds patience, you could avoid a tragic situation which you must live with for the rest of your life. HappyMisery
  • Score: 1

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