VOTE: Delay to traveller bid (From Warrington Guardian)

WBC has failed!! what a joke, i for one do not wish my taxes spent on these people who chose this lifestyle, the rest of us have to go through hoops to put an extension on our property, the "travellers" seem to do as they please and leave everywhere a mess when they leave. Travel if you are a traveller. utility block and space for parking its a joke/affont to the decent law abiding/tax paying public.

If they start paying taxes like all the other residents do then yeah, but they never will so definitely no, that and the fact that they don't even clean up after themselves and leave their trash for the council to clean up and tax payers to pay for is a complete joke, let them "travel" as they are travellers

when i made the above comments i got some rubbish about the human rights of these people!!!

As stated in this artucle they are not currently living within the guidlines of their expired licence as it is!!

With human right comes human responisbility!!!! what about tohers human rights to a peaceful life?!?

We are on a natural and ancient traveller route so why not have travellers stay in designated places, instead of just anywhere they can gain access with their mobile homes and associated vans, cars and lorries? I personally do not see that there is a problem with travellers policing their own kind and if that means providing a place to stay for what ever reason they need or are required to stay in one area. If WBC had provided such a site then this site would not have attracted such ridicule and bigoted abuse of racial / ethnic minority groups!

No matter what the council's outcome is, the stationary travellers will always continue to ignore rules and regulations . So unfortunately folks this site is here to stay just like the others dotted around the town. They are a law unto themselves and don't give a monkeys about us "gorgers" as they call us . For the amount of sites which I know of 6 excluding this one within 6-7 miles of Warrington .. This as never stopped travellers from pitching up all over the place and leaving loads of trouble and rubbish behind .

with regard to SAC_in_warrington
I am not Racist or bigoted against anyone or any group and have never been accused of such! Why should our taxes be used to provide anything to anyone who does not contribute? ancient traveller route/police their own kind? what sort of joke is this is? I and most of us abide by the laws of the land, i and most of us are policed by, guess what the police which we pay for! get a grip SAC have you also any idea on the travellers reputation regarding the animals thay own/abandon/abuse or is this allowed with the in house policing. i wont go into the denying their children correct education and treating the women as second class citizens. if you agree with such please feel free to reply as we are allowed to within our society.

s d wilson wrote:
with regard to SAC_in_warrington
I am not Racist or bigoted against anyone or any group and have never been accused of such! Why should our taxes be used to provide anything to anyone who does not contribute? ancient traveller route/police their own kind? what sort of joke is this is? I and most of us abide by the laws of the land, i and most of us are policed by, guess what the police which we pay for! get a grip SAC have you also any idea on the travellers reputation regarding the animals thay own/abandon/abuse or is this allowed with the in house policing. i wont go into the denying their children correct education and treating the women as second class citizens. if you agree with such please feel free to reply as we are allowed to within our society.

I know that there are some travellers that cause problems but no more than residents of the salubrious sink spots in the Warrington boundaries. There are different types of travellers and you seem blissfully unaware of their cultural heritage in this area, a culture that I respect and I am willing to accept. They suffer the same consequences when formally and correctly convicted of any crime they may commit. They, to my informed knowledge do pay road tax, private and or commercial insurance and have MOT tests completed for their cars, vans and lorries. In addition to VAT on their purchases. Why then do you want to persecute the majority of travellers because a few of them happen to ignore the more common norms of our contemporary culture?

I think that fact here is, that the majority of them ignore income tax, NI, business rates from the land they own and run dodgy businesses from. Not to mention public liability insurance for when they botch up jobs on unsuspecting home owners. They obviousley pay to have legal use of the roads because the police now have anpr cameras . So it would be right to say it is the minority if any that have an honest and upstanding contribution to our society .

The good thing is they are in a contained spot, the bad thing is they will still set up wherever they can!!

Daz@SankeyviaOrford wrote:
I think that fact here is, that the majority of them ignore income tax, NI, business rates from the land they own and run dodgy businesses from. Not to mention public liability insurance for when they botch up jobs on unsuspecting home owners. They obviousley pay to have legal use of the roads because the police now have anpr cameras . So it would be right to say it is the minority if any that have an honest and upstanding contribution to our society .

You would have to show me or rather tell me from where you got your information, although I suspect that you refer to assumptions, given the lack of valid evidence in your previous comment. Perhaps it may be true that they do pay Income Tax & National Insurance. Why would the travellers pay business rates on their abode, do you? A mobile hairdresser or mobile DJ would not pay business rates on their home, come on be realistic and at least apply some form of logical thought to your generalist, fictitious comments, please!

SAC_in_Warrington wrote:

Daz@SankeyviaOrford wrote: I think that fact here is, that the majority of them ignore income tax, NI, business rates from the land they own and run dodgy businesses from. Not to mention public liability insurance for when they botch up jobs on unsuspecting home owners. They obviousley pay to have legal use of the roads because the police now have anpr cameras . So it would be right to say it is the minority if any that have an honest and upstanding contribution to our society .

You would have to show me or rather tell me from where you got your information, although I suspect that you refer to assumptions, given the lack of valid evidence in your previous comment. Perhaps it may be true that they do pay Income Tax & National Insurance. Why would the travellers pay business rates on their abode, do you? A mobile hairdresser or mobile DJ would not pay business rates on their home, come on be realistic and at least apply some form of logical thought to your generalist, fictitious comments, please!

ane we are the bigoted ones SAC?!?!? now climb back into your new rangerover, hitch your shack on the back and go join the merry band of 'law abiding travellers'!! im sure you wqill be welcomed with open arms!!

SAC to say "Perhaps it's true they pay income tax and NI" is more of an unbelievable assumption than the so called assumptions you say I have made . I have never seen an hairdresser or DJ park a row of hiab lorrys outside there homes. The rules for running these vehicles state operators licence holders must have an 'operating centre' where the vehicles park overnight . This must be a business address! Therefore qualifying for business rates . If you go past for instance the site on Chester rd , there are always lorrys there. I would say it is realistic and logical to say what I have. SAC I would say it is your assumptions and generalisations of the structure of a business that are making your comments not factual . As I said previously they will always ignore rules and regulations because they do not care for our society ..

Daz@SankeyviaOrford wrote:
SAC to say "Perhaps it's true they pay income tax and NI" is more of an unbelievable assumption than the so called assumptions you say I have made . I have never seen an hairdresser or DJ park a row of hiab lorrys outside there homes. The rules for running these vehicles state operators licence holders must have an 'operating centre' where the vehicles park overnight . This must be a business address! Therefore qualifying for business rates . If you go past for instance the site on Chester rd , there are always lorrys there. I would say it is realistic and logical to say what I have. SAC I would say it is your assumptions and generalisations of the structure of a business that are making your comments not factual . As I said previously they will always ignore rules and regulations because they do not care for our society ..

I reiterate that I haven't made any assumptions and it is you are that are manipulating your assumptions to fit your impotent argument. The small lorries that you have so vigilantly discovered do not require an operating centre or a licence for it. The same as my example of the mobile hairdresser and the mobile DJ or indeed my local home painter and decorator and his van the local joiner and his van and the local publican and his mini-bus and van! I still believe that your argument is flawed and doesn't contain factual evidence.

Fact: they had temporary permission for two caravans and two mobile homes which expired in October 2011, they are not authorised to be their. These law abiding citizens have choosen to ignore this and remain there illegally and now have the cheek to ask for more caravens to be allowed on site. This country needs the balls to deal with the constant law breaking from this miniority.
Fact: the Republic of Ireland made trespass illegal, mainly because they got fed up of travellers setting up camps and leaving the area a mess for the tax payer to sort out, they no longer have this issue,

SAC_in_Warrington wrote:

Daz@SankeyviaOrford wrote:
SAC to say "Perhaps it's true they pay income tax and NI" is more of an unbelievable assumption than the so called assumptions you say I have made . I have never seen an hairdresser or DJ park a row of hiab lorrys outside there homes. The rules for running these vehicles state operators licence holders must have an 'operating centre' where the vehicles park overnight . This must be a business address! Therefore qualifying for business rates . If you go past for instance the site on Chester rd , there are always lorrys there. I would say it is realistic and logical to say what I have. SAC I would say it is your assumptions and generalisations of the structure of a business that are making your comments not factual . As I said previously they will always ignore rules and regulations because they do not care for our society ..

I reiterate that I haven't made any assumptions and it is you are that are manipulating your assumptions to fit your impotent argument. The small lorries that you have so vigilantly discovered do not require an operating centre or a licence for it. The same as my example of the mobile hairdresser and the mobile DJ or indeed my local home painter and decorator and his van the local joiner and his van and the local publican and his mini-bus and van! I still believe that your argument is flawed and doesn't contain factual evidence.

SAC the lorrys do need an operators licence its the law ! Fact as I do have an operators licence for 7.5 ton vehicles with hiabs. I have found that they use a common address in Wales to register vehicles to , then proceed to park them wherever they want without regard to legislation or operating rules. I do hope you never have the misfortune of being ripped off or dealing with these types of cowboys . Please do continue believe I am wrong as this is your prerogative. However I do know the facts and they are readily available on line. This is just one example of how they do not contribute fairly to our society and I am sure as stated before that most if not all of them play the system with little regard to taxation and insurance laws.

As I have said in the past to those who know the correct procedures for such situations then take up the challenge and report any misdemeanours or assumed misdemeanours and report then to the appropriate government department or licensing authority. But be aware that you may not be fully appraised of all the details required for a prosecution on this point. Some action on your part will surely will speak louder than your words in these comments or are you just as inert as everyone else on this matter!

SAC_in_Warrington wrote:
As I have said in the past to those who know the correct procedures for such situations then take up the challenge and report any misdemeanours or assumed misdemeanours and report then to the appropriate government department or licensing authority. But be aware that you may not be fully appraised of all the details required for a prosecution on this point. Some action on your part will surely will speak louder than your words in these comments or are you just as inert as everyone else on this matter!

SAC I would suggest that the authorities should do there job too ! Since honest tax payers pay towards there wages . However the wrigglers that reside in there caravans have it off to a fine art. Besides I'm sure there are people out there similar to yourself who are there to help them avoid any recompense . My opinion has not been changed by your idyllic views on these people . Like I said before I hope you do not have the misfortune of being ripped of or paying for the clean up bill for cleaning land up after they have messed it up. Happy caravaning mr SAC

Daz@SankeyviaOrford wrote:

SAC_in_Warrington wrote:
As I have said in the past to those who know the correct procedures for such situations then take up the challenge and report any misdemeanours or assumed misdemeanours and report then to the appropriate government department or licensing authority. But be aware that you may not be fully appraised of all the details required for a prosecution on this point. Some action on your part will surely will speak louder than your words in these comments or are you just as inert as everyone else on this matter!

SAC I would suggest that the authorities should do there job too ! Since honest tax payers pay towards there wages . However the wrigglers that reside in there caravans have it off to a fine art. Besides I'm sure there are people out there similar to yourself who are there to help them avoid any recompense . My opinion has not been changed by your idyllic views on these people . Like I said before I hope you do not have the misfortune of being ripped of or paying for the clean up bill for cleaning land up after they have messed it up. Happy caravaning mr SAC

I am immensely sure that the authorities do do their jobs with relish but, perhaps they may appreciate some well meaning assistance from such a fine, community minded, upright citizen like your eminent self. Why do you not do anything about informing the appropriate authorities about other peoples misdemeanours. I guess that you prefer to observe from afar and incessantly moan on about issues that you profess to have intimate knowledge and wisdom about. I think how sad to exhibit the behaviour you are presenting in your comments above. Additionally I've particularly noticed that you are now making assumptions about my gender, and it has no apparent consequences to our discussion.

Used to have travellers in my area until the land they illegally camped on was built on. When they were here, items were stolen from sheds, backyards and they even took a neighbour's dog! He went onto the site looking for it and found it tied to a caravan !!! They defecated along the river patth on a regular basis, dirty gits!!! They were nothing but trouble and we all breathed a sigh of relief when they were finally moved on. Think they are above the law, they do.

SAC_in_Warrington wrote:

Daz@SankeyviaOrford wrote:

SAC_in_Warrington wrote:
As I have said in the past to those who know the correct procedures for such situations then take up the challenge and report any misdemeanours or assumed misdemeanours and report then to the appropriate government department or licensing authority. But be aware that you may not be fully appraised of all the details required for a prosecution on this point. Some action on your part will surely will speak louder than your words in these comments or are you just as inert as everyone else on this matter!

SAC I would suggest that the authorities should do there job too ! Since honest tax payers pay towards there wages . However the wrigglers that reside in there caravans have it off to a fine art. Besides I'm sure there are people out there similar to yourself who are there to help them avoid any recompense . My opinion has not been changed by your idyllic views on these people . Like I said before I hope you do not have the misfortune of being ripped of or paying for the clean up bill for cleaning land up after they have messed it up. Happy caravaning mr SAC

I am immensely sure that the authorities do do their jobs with relish but, perhaps they may appreciate some well meaning assistance from such a fine, community minded, upright citizen like your eminent self. Why do you not do anything about informing the appropriate authorities about other peoples misdemeanours. I guess that you prefer to observe from afar and incessantly moan on about issues that you profess to have intimate knowledge and wisdom about. I think how sad to exhibit the behaviour you are presenting in your comments above. Additionally I've particularly noticed that you are now making assumptions about my gender, and it has no apparent consequences to our discussion.

Sorry SAC for assuming your a bloke ! However the authorities are well aware of all the dodgy illegal activity, scams and avoidance tac tics these people use, and thats with out my help.But they do not do enough (in my opinion). As a fine upstanding citizen that I am , I am not inccesantly moaning about them. I have just been responding to your comments. As for moaning about issues you do seem to post many comments / moans ( as you put them) against plenty of reports ect on this site . All the very best for new year and I do hope my previous behaviour (as you put it) as not made you to sad.

SAC_in_Warrington wrote:
We are on a natural and ancient traveller route so why not have travellers stay in designated places, instead of just anywhere they can gain access with their mobile homes and associated vans, cars and lorries? I personally do not see that there is a problem with travellers policing their own kind and if that means providing a place to stay for what ever reason they need or are required to stay in one area. If WBC had provided such a site then this site would not have attracted such ridicule and bigoted abuse of racial / ethnic minority groups!

"I personally do not see that there is a problem with travellers policing their own kind".....

you do not see a problem with flagrant breach of the most basic building and planning Regulations......tha
t EVERYBODY has to follow ? thats a basic way of life, to follow the rules set down by that society. Do you think anyone would be comfortable with having to live next to groups of people who do not seem to have to follow these basic laws.

So despite this breach of law/regulations you still overlook that FACT and have them down as righteous citizens and attempt to paint this whole forum as a bunch of Racist Bigots.....????

I admire your argumentative talents normally, but sadly not today, you have been a disgrace pal/madam

The main points of my comments and counter comments is that some of the commentators are plainly making assumptions, generalisations and using stereotypical prejudicial language in their comments plainly with limited knowledge of the individuals involved. I personally find that unjust and unfair and have expressed that issue throughout my comments. Secondly I have acknowledged that some of "The Travellers", have been committing offences and have demonstrated selfish behaviour,although I do refuse to tar them all with the same brush. In addition I have over thirty years experience of working with traveller families including when necessary enforcing appropriate legislation. Some of the commentators have insisted that offences have been committed and appeared to have stood by and not reported it to the appropriate authorities. Plenty of words but no action. I have reported on the misdemeanours of several communities in Warrington but with with known facts and an by completing an official legally valid statement when it fell within and outside my remit and legal jurisdiction. I fervently do not believe that I am a disgrace that is your opinion and perhaps you have not fully understood my point of view. I have positively tried to make my points as clear as possible and with carefully chosen words. I also realise that any comment made here will have absolutely no effect to the decision of the planning authority and any subsequent appeals that may result, thus further prolonging the planning process while it is sorted out.

Nothing but trouble the lot of 'em,like rats in a pack.Where ever they go it spells a nuisance for the law abiding local people.
Human s### left everywhere,rubbish,y
ou name it.House values will go down,once they are let in it takes hell of a lot to get rid.
Who in their right mind would live in a caravan instead of a house,and I think that says it all.